New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[dverna]

Clamping the muzzle down would really concern me. What if I started shooting 1/2" groups at 50 yards with Thunderbolts?

Now what!!! What do I do to shoot critters? LOL

I suppose if punching paper accurately was the goal, I could set something up and be happy but it somehow does not feel "right".

[OS OK]

This is a very interesting thread.I like reading about the 22 rim fire rifles.I have always enjoyed shooting 22's from the bench always trying for that very small group.The 22 rifle I shoot the most for the last 50+ years is a Savage Anschutz model 54 sporter. I would like to have a rifle like OSOK with the peep and globe sights.I have a Marlin 336 set up that way and always thought a 22 would be a lot of fun. Anyway thanks for the good read....

Thanks for the kind words TCFAN... thanks for following and helping to make this a success.

In case you haven't seen the other end of the spectrum about all this 'Peep & Globe' business...there is this channel on the Tube that is absolutely incredible, filled with information & testing beyond belief.

https://www.youtube.com/c/heinzreinkemeier/videos > heinz reinkemeier



Here in this thread we barely scratch the surface of this RABBIT HOLE.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I found a good deal today, I think?
I know I said early on that I wasn't going to get caught up in this 'ARMS RACE' of the 22lr on the bench....right?

Well shame on me...I figured this was a good price for an entry level front rest...and heck, it could come in useful...right?
OK so I bought the dang thing!

[TCFAN]

OS OK
Thanks for the you tube link. Looks interesting and very advanced for me.Good luck with the front bench rest. I have been looking at a Caldwell front rest for a while myself.

[303Guy]

This thread has been great fun! Thanks, OS OK.

It's been inspirational and educational.

Now to see how the new rest does. You might have to brave the cold for the team, OS.

On the down under front, I found some ammo to try. Four different Eleys and some Winchester 40gr subsonic hollow nose. So, we'll see how it goes at the next range session in ten days time. Ammo shortages are hitting us on this side of the world too so I need to decide what to buy bulk of while it's still available.

[tazman]

This thread has been great fun! Thanks, OS OK.

It's been inspirational and educational.

Yes indeed. It makes me wish my eyes were able to properly use open sights.
It wouldn't matter though. I still can't hold steady enough to shoot well regardless of how well I can see.

[303Guy]

I still can't hold steady enough to shoot well regardless of how well I can see.

I was thinking about my early days with my scoped 512. It had a super light and crisp trigger, so light that I would hold my finger next to it and all I would do is twitch my finger to fire it. This allowed me to develop a swing through timing technique. I could shoot the 100yd pistol rams in the head! Now I'm happy with a steady rest.

[OS OK]

Got out today and gave this 'hairball' scheme of mine a go. Brrrrrrrr! Don't like the cold.

I started with the weight at midpoint of the barrel, what I call the 0" mark...



I moved it forward at 1/2" per spot. At the 2" mark it was interfeering with the folded bipod so I went back and tried once more at 1/4"...



Looking at the chart, there may be a node between 1/2" & 1" but I just couldn't brave the cold any longer, my toes & ears were aching.
There may also be a node on the negative side of 0" but the weight cannot go in that direction as it is about 1/4" from the end of the stock.



The sun was reflecting off these shiny spots I use to repair the target with so these groups may not be fair to this Fed ammo. But we haven't seen the Fed. ammo do anything special so far...so I'm thinking that you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear!

I think a shaft collar like this one in 13/16" would probabally do a better job, so if I can find one I'll give this a try again in much smaller incriments and prolly use the Aguila I have saved back.

[303Guy]

Thanks for taking one for the team!

I can't help thinking that a muzzle weight would be the most productive. It would force a node at the muzzle for a start and dampen muzzle movement. Only one way to find out. I've got ten days to get things ready for the range but I other stuff just keeps getting in the way. A muzzle weight would not require much to clamp it. Anyway, we'll see if I get a round tooit.

I took one of my Slazenger cheapo 22's to the range this past Sunday. It has a good trigger but a weak firing pin spring. It could probably do with a bedding job. But it showed promise and could be a fun 'target' rifle. It's a bit light at the muzzle - maybe a suppressor type muzzle weight would be in order. That and better sights. There are other aperture sights on the market. Just thinking how much fun you are having with yours.

[tazman]

I love the idea of being able to increase accuracy by such a simple thing as a clamp on or slide on weight or dampener. Unfortunately, the style of shooting I expect to participate in requires no modifications to the rifle specifically including barrel tuners/dampeners.
I may try one just to see if it works for me.
I had a rifle I traded for that had one of the rubber ones on it. I'll see if I can find it.

[OS OK]

Weather IS . . . Permitting

Got an exciting day ahead, the wind & rain, sleet & snow has let up...temperature is going to be 52º to 55º for the next three days and about 90% sun is predicted.
Can't beat that with a stick!

I had ordered that new front rest on the 25'th and it arrived yesterday. I have to say I am impressed with the quality of construction...I say this even after seeing the 'made in china' tags that were sewn into the seams of the bags! I didn't waste any time cutting them off and tossing them into the trash! Sorry boys...I have this thing about china!

Anyway...I removed the bi-pod and have this new rest set up and ready for this morning.



I think I'll spray the parts that screw and slide against each other with some silicone spray thinking that I'd like to have it move up and down with ease as the cast base and the riser bolt are made pretty tight. Don't want to oil it and have to deal oil smears, have that collecting dust and going to my hands, then to the rifle and such...
if anyone has a better idea for lubing it up please let me know.

My older brother Manny and I had to get out yesterday and go around the mountain to a little restaurant over in Auburn and have some breakfast. Being couped up this past week or so has made both of us antsy to get out of the house. It felt good to go sit down inside and see only one older couple wearing their little face mask. This stinking Covid thing has closed many a business here in the Sierras...Mick, a displaced New Yorker and the owner has managed to survive by having to lay off his entire staff and run this place on his own with only the wife to help...Mick serves up a hearty breakfast!



Later we drove over to the local 'Ma & Pa' owned gun shop and I was dismayed to see the shelves unusually bare. Absolutely no .22lr ammo of any kind, centerfire was a hit and miss proposition with 17HMR looking unaffected....no primers and only about a dozen bottles of powder. His rifles and shotguns were spread out across the racks to make the shop seem 'not so bare' and the pistols and revolvers in the glass counter-cases could have been carried out in one small laundry basket.
Reminds me of hard times we had about 8 years ago!
I learned my lesson about stocking up back then...I'm not affected by this latest debaco as many are today, I feel blessed to have what I have.

Anyway...the owner came over to talk with Manny and myself as I stood in front of the empty .22.lr shelf, I commented that it's tough having this new MKII and no quality ammo to shoot in it. The owner ducked down behind the counter and came up with a bulk box of Aguila...he apologized for having only this and offered them up to me if I wanted them.
I said sure...anything to get some trigger time in will help. I peered over the counter from where he had them stashed and saw but one other box of Aguila.



I think today, I'll shoot them 'unsorted' and see what this 'new to me' Aguila HP will do....I'll concentrate on learning to use this new front rest and rear slider bag and get some good releases with the trigger. I'll make the most of what I have to work with and for a couple hours today, none of the 'worries of the world' will be on my mind!
After, I'll sit in my shop and think about things and have a few cold beers to celebrate.

[tazman]

Man, that guy serves up a big breakfast!

I like the looks of your new rest setup. I am looking forward to a report on it. Thinking about one for myself.

I am jealous of your weather. The rain and snow starts in a couple of hours here. Not looking good for a few days. Any day above 32 during the next 10 days has snow in the forecast. Got some near single digit temps coming up.

[OS OK]

tazman...things are looking pretty good for another couple days...I'm going to make the most of it.

Hope to have some fair targets and a good recommendation on this rest by this evening or tomallie.

[303Guy]

Looking forward to your results! Ammo is getting scarce in my parts too but not as bad as you folks have are having it.

[uscra112]

Here's an ASSRA thread on the Pope muzzle rest system. With pictures.

https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Y...1458853868/180

[OS OK]

Here's an ASSRA thread on the Pope muzzle rest system. With pictures.

https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Y...1458853868/180

I followed that but no pictures came up on that link? I assume you meant to rest the barrel just in front of the fore-stock on the front rest? I came close to trying that today but didn't as I had a few 'hiccups' in today's practice and was distracted. I may yet try this before I run out of this new to me ammo.

Today's fun...

Beautiful day and perfect for shooting...
I wet patched the barrel because this ammo is a little different, it has that copper wash coating and the Federal HV I was shooting previously did not. I decided to give the warmer spot 10 rounds instead of the usual 5 when starting with a dirty barrel so it might season a bit before going to the remaining spots for a measurement of the groupings.
Here's the first of four sessions today...by the time I got into the second (top right) spot I was having trouble with the rest...had to stop on the second round and remedy that situation.



The rest had paint inside of the hole the elevation screw fits into and it was not free to adjust up and down on it's own weight....I had to push down on the rest to get it to drop down. I paused and took it to the shop and honed the hole with some 120 grit paper, cleaned the sanding out and re-lubed with silicone and went back to the bench to finnish the first set of spots. I think they showed some promise.



That plastic key-way that keeps the screw running up and down without turning the rest is too large for the slot in the screw. No biggie, I just eliminated that because the bottom locking screw ( the long one at 4:00 in the photo) will keep it from moving anyway.
This interrupted the barrel warming and I had to start again with a cold barrel on the secont and remaining spots. Again...no biggie, I intend to shoot lotz of ammo today.

Second target, again starting with 10 warmers...here again, I got a bum start. On the second spot, top right I started noticing that each hand fed round to the chamber was starting to feel 'sticky'...it did not slide into the chamber easy & smoothly. I wasn't sure what to make of this, this happening so early on with so few rounds having been fired. When I got to the third spot (bottom left) I knew it was sticky as the extractor failed to pull a round, had to pry it out with the screwdriver! So...hiccup no. 2, no biggie...I walked to the shop and got the chamber swab and some Hoppes and came back to clean the chamber. Now this barrel is cool again...that sorta blew this target for a good idea of what this Aguila HP bulk pack will do! You will notice that the bottom left target has 6 rounds in it...I let myself get distracted on the 4'th spot bottom right and put, I think...the second shot over to the right where you see the six holes! Oh Boy...I ain't starting out like a champ today but I'm definitely having some fun!



Now...3'rd session...I'm talking out loud to myself on the way back to the bench. I just hung the target after repairing the holes and measuring it and taking a picture...I'm telling myself to 'concentrate for goodness sakes!' Let's get this together this time. I got a new rest, some possibly good ammo...just concentrate this time boy, what the heck can go wrong by now?
It started well with the warmer spot of 10 rounds, that looked encouraging so I move to the top right, the second spot and immediately throw one off to the 3:00 outer ring!
That sunk my duck right then...I had to talk some more to me...heck, it is looking like I'm going to blow a great day of shooting!



I had intended originally to shoot only 3 sessions, take my time and do a good job....well, that didn't happen so now I'm 'hell bent' to get a good session in on the books so to speak. I repaired the 3'rd target, hung it and again talked to myself all the way to the bench. I wasn't being very kind, I was rather harsh with myself.
OK...here it is...4'th go-around..this has got to work. Again the warmer's looked encouraging and I went on to shoot well, at least...well for what it's worth today...I guess I have to be happy with this last target, it, at least did show some promise for tomorrow...tomorrow will always be a better day, right?



Some final thoughts...

Regarding the new rest system...I like it. It is quality even thought I had that minor hiccup with the screw adjustment. They did send a spare key-way so I figure them slick ChineeeeSe's knew I'd have this problem. Good on them for sending it. When I re-install that part I will hone it down some so it'll slide easy in that screw slot. The bags that came with the reat are just fine, no complaints.
This Aguila HP super extra is dirty in the chamber, I can't explain why but it's leaving a sticky something in the chamber.
Now...about shooting off this system, I have mixed emotions. One side of me likes the precision alignment and the steady resting of the rifle...it makes it much easier to work on tight groupings.
The other side of me doesn't like this system, would rather be shooting off the tripod...would rather be honing that skill-set instead because it puts more weight on the shooter's ability to perform as in shooting away from the bench, say in the woods.
But the logical part of me says, that...until I have my shooting skill-set honed to a point to where I can judge good and bad ammo and not have to take into consideration any handicap of my own doing, I need to keep with this bench style shooting & with the new system.
Just makes good sense to me.

[uscra112]

I followed that but no pictures came up on that link?

I forgot. You have to be a logged-in forum member to see the pictures. It's free to join the forum; you ought to do it.

Meanwhile:


Other shooters used just the muzzle rest, and shouldered the buttstock, which usually had the "prongs" typical of the Swiss buttplates used for offhand shooting.

Sorry for picking a thread which was a rare but extended piddling match between two of the more opinionated members. And most of the pictures are of modern setups which don't grip the barrel at the muzzle.

[dverna]

I have been having trouble understanding your targets for a while.

But I likely missed something. So. Looking at your last target...lower right

What does 7/8, 3/4, 13/16, and 9/16 mean?

[303Guy]

....
Some final thoughts...
...
Now...about shooting off this system, I have mixed emotions. One side of me likes the precision alignment and the steady resting of the rifle...it makes it much easier to work on tight groupings.
The other side of me doesn't like this system, would rather be shooting off the tripod...would rather be honing that skill-set instead because it puts more weight on the shooter's ability to perform as in shooting away from the bench, say in the woods.
But the logical part of me says, that...until I have my shooting skill-set honed to a point to where I can judge good and bad ammo and not have to take into consideration any handicap of my own doing, I need to keep with this bench style shooting & with the new system.
Just makes good sense to me.

What I found with bench rest shooting is learning sight picture and trigger control. From there I was able to learn swing control and trigger timing with off hand shooting. Control the swing to pass through the target then learn timing to let the shot off. That's the great thing about 22 rimfire - one can take a box of fifty and practice with it and not break the bank. No recoil fatigue either.

[tazman]

What I found with bench rest shooting is learning sight picture and trigger control. From there I was able to learn swing control and trigger timing with off hand shooting. Control the swing to pass through the target then learn timing to let the shot off. That's the great thing about 22 rimfire - one can take a box of fifty and practice with it and not break the bank. No recoil fatigue either.

Trigger control and sight picture.......That's where I am. Still learning.
I also know I am nowhere near steady enough to try offhand shooting with a rifle unless the target is very large. But that's just me. Personal issue.
OS OK------I find your first impressions of the rest interesting. The reasons you gave for disliking it don't apply to me. Please continue to give reviews of the rest as well as your shooting results.

[OS OK]

I am been having trouble understanding your targets for a while.

But I likely missed something. So. Looking at your last target...lower right

What does 7/8, 3/4, 13/16, and 9/16 mean?

Sorry about that, maybe I should have explained...I get tunnel vision doing this and think everyone knows what I'm thinking and doing...'old'age' I recon!
I haven't picked up any more of these large (14"x28") sheets of construction paper that I use to stick-on easy-see targets of 2", 3", 4" or 6" target faces or I use a template and rattle can and make a set of black 4" spots on the paper. Not very clean around the edges but with a peep & globe @ 50 yds., I can't tell the difference.



The little repair spots above don't stick well to the target & if they get shot they'll generally pop off leaving me wondering which hole to measure. Since I had these black 2" stick-on spots, pictured below (above top right)... I have been using them to repair & re-use these target papers over and over again.



Someone advised me of the rules & reg's. of this style of shooting @ 50 yds. and told me to ditch the shoot-and-see spots and said to make my own 4" regulation size spots. That's when I went to a template and a rattle can to make these targets





On the various target pictures you can see the holes between the target faces that came from the other side, the other side has been used already...I flip them over and use them again trying to be frugal.



SO....these 4 sessions were done on one used target paper...as I measure the groupings and repair the faces I keep writing the group size next to the target without marking through the previous measurement. Shown below on my second session today...see, same target paper as above but with a new group size written below the first session...also note the 2" stick-on black spot I repaired the first session with.



I've been using those paper 2" stick-on spots I got on a roll of 250 from Amazon because they tend to stay stuck even with 5 holes in them.
SO...as I wrote the group size and repaired the target, I just repeated that over and over and that's why all those sizes are written on the 4'th target. Look at the top session and then the 2'nd and so on and you can see the progression.
I hope that explains that, I'm still on my first cuppa-joe and it's early yet this morning.