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Thread: New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

  1. #81
    Boolit Buddy
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    Here's a few other sight parts I've designed and printed.

  2. #82
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Now there is a real good use for 3D printing. Bravo!
    Cognitive Dissident

  3. #83
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Very impressive! I don't know anyone with a 3-D printer but I am pretty handy with a file and a hammer.

    Well, I do have a lathe and I do have a somewhat crude milling arrangement that with lots of care, I could produce something workable. One should also not underestimate what can be achieved with epoxy glue. Or flame soldering/sweating. I once made a scope rail on a drill press using a cross feed vise that I still have somewhere but can't find. Maybe I don't have it anymore? Gone walkabout? There was a time when things were going walkabout - very annoying. Anyway it is what it is.

    These globe sights could double up as barrel tuners if one can adjust the weight, could they not? I have heard of a suppressor tightening a 22 rifle groups from pretty poor to bug hole. If one can determine the optimum weight then one could make the front globe arrangement at that weight. Maybe?

    Anyway, I'm finding this thread quite inspirational.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-24-2020 at 02:48 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  4. #84
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    1066......that's a terrific idea, I'm so glad you posted your work here.

    303Guy......These globe sights could double up as barrel tuners if one can adjust the weight, could they not?

    My thoughts exactly. Either their location on the front of the barrel or some way of increasing and decreasing weight came to mind...this 3-D printing is going off the map! I wonder if no.9 shot could be added or taken from a hole in that rig but it'd have'ta be tight and in place so it wouldn't shift
    No tellin what our collective minds here can come up with along these lines.

    Earlier, the other day I think I commented on an 'Aguila ammo thread' about the fps drop in 50 yards but wasn't entirely sure I had my numbers right, I was going off memory with a different ammo (that's a loosing bet anymore)...anyway I repeated that test this morning to see what it'd be with this new to me Aguila.
    Here's what I got...1,076fps...yah, the targets look goofy, it was a failed approach to see if they'd stand out differently in the globe, they did & it wasn't good, I changed them after the first 5 warmers.





    I started out with the first 5 warmers, went up and took the picture and moved the chrony back to the bench @ 50yards...then shot another 5 warmers.



    Soooo, I came back to the bench and got the muzzle velocity, finishing off the first 10 shots (so that's an average number for just 5 shots for each location of the chrony), could be more acdcurate with a longer string in each location but I just wanted a rough estimate showing a large drop.

    Then I started right in 'focusing on the spot instead of the front globe (just wanted to see if that makes a difference (since I often, against better advise tend to do that) Up until today I've really been trying to focus on the globe as told to do so earlier in this posting.

    Anyway the first spot bottom left, I should have taken a breather after walking up and back to do the chrony work...I knew better just as soon as I was seeing my heartbeat in the sight allignment, first time I've really noticed that. But bullheadedness kept me going instead of sitting a few minutes to slow the heart and today this is what I got.
    Prolly the most informative thing I got out of the practice session today is the chrony numbers and positive reinforcement to take a few minutes when I sit down to the bench before I start shooting...just sit there after setting up and calming myself before starting!
    "Oh well...I often learn the hard way like today, that's a RedNeck Texican for'Ya!"
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post

    These globe sights could double up as barrel tuners if one can adjust the weight, could they not? I have heard of a suppressor tightening a 22 rifle groups from pretty poor to bug hole. If one can determine the optimum weight then one could make the front globe arrangement at that weight. Maybe?

    Anyway, I'm finding this thread quite inspirational.
    Funny you should say that - I've just been chatting to another chap about tuners with suppressors. A while ago I designed a tuner that fitted between the muzzle and the suppressor it works very well, I have it currently fitted to my Sako Finnfire with lilja match barrel. He asked if there was a simpler way it could be done so I made this quick sketch yesterday.

    This is my tuner/suppressor. I made a collet clamp to fit my new Lilja barrel as I was reluctant to screw cut it.

  6. #86
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    You're right about 3D printing - opens up a whole new world. This part is to extend the sight base of a cheap airpistol, it also has compartments for three 180gn lead slugs as adjustable muzzle weight.


    It would be no trouble to design a disc with a few holes round it to insert lead bullets for and adjustable tuner. Something like this, or even extend it past the muzzle.


  7. #87
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks for showing that, 1066. Very interesting. I need to learn about barrel tuning. I've just started playing around with barrel damping (as in bedding). This after seeing how one rifle shoots to such different points with different ammo. If I add barrel tuning to it I might get interesting results.

    So OS OK, what you seem to have demonstrated is that Aguila Super Extra can shoot well in spite of being in the transonic zone all the way to the target.

    On the heart beat thing, that has always been my problem. But not so much now, perhaps because of the way I am holding the rifle. My mistake I think is holding a lung full using my tongue. That accentuates heartbeat but it's what is comfortable for me. The other thing is I never try to focus on the front sight. If I do that I just get eyestrain and can't see the target well enough. I don't remember what I did when my eyes were still young. I find that the rear sight, be it peep, V, U or square actually focuses the front sight for my eyes. Until my eyes get tired that is.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  8. #88
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    You're 'sposta take a deep breath then let out all the way before beginning your hold. Harry Pope said so.
    Cognitive Dissident

  9. #89
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Very nice work with the 3d printer, was eyeing 1 years ago and decided not to get one. Have enough unfinished projects laying around to last for years.

    Huge difference between bbl dampening and bbl tuners.

    Bbl tuners deal with the end of the bbl/bbl whip. The idea is to get the end of the bbl to stop in the same place every shot. The end of the bbl moves up and down/vibrates with every shot. The weight of the tuner on the end of the bbl is adjustable to find the sweet spot for that ammo/lot of ammo. Once you find a setting with a bbl tuner it will not change that much between lots of the same ammo or ammo's that perform close to the original ammo tested for that setting. If you switch over from a subsonic ammo to a hv ammo you have to start all over resetting the tuner. You wouldn't think there would be that much difference between sv and hv ammo in a +/- 27" bull bbl that's 1" in diameter. The other thing that affects a tuners is when the tuner gets dirty it increases the weight.

    Dampeners change the harmonics of a bbl to get the end of the bbl to stop in the same place every time. Bedding, pressure points or more typically a combination of both are used in the stock for dampeners.

    Both types of bbl manipulators rely on 1 thing, namely consistent torque setting of the take down screws. You should take the rifle out and play with the torque setting on the take down screws until you get small round groups. Too loose and you get vertical stringing. Too tight and you get horizontal stringing. Every time yo go to the range the torque setting should be reset. It does no good to set the torques at home (70*) and then go to the range when it's 30*. Same when the torques get set then the rifle goes out in the sun for a 1 hour shoot. The torque settings on the action screws are very important and if they are not consistent nothing else will be.

    Tuners are pretty strait forward, keep shooting/adjusting until your groups shrink. Then do fine tuning, lots of ammo/time but when it's done the settings won't change much.

    Dampening a bbl is always interesting but where to start??? After I get the torques set on a rifle I like to use corn starch (baby powder or flour will work) along with strips of rubber to find out where to dampen the bbl. I clamp the rifle down flat like I was shooting it and then put corn starch on top of the bbl the whole length of the bbl. Then I softly tap the muzzle of the bbl. Doing this will cause the corn starch to fall off. Keep tapping and you will see that you end up with corn starch left somewhere near the middle of the bbl. This is known as the dead spot of the bbl & you want the corn starch to be left in the middle. The theory is the bbl whips up and down when a bullet is shot. If the dead spot is in the middle the bbl's muzzle will end up in the same place. If the dead spot is 1"/2" off center the differences in bbl whip between shot will amplify and the muzzle will be all over the place.

    Typically I like to find the dead spot of the bbl's on my sporter rifles and the thru bedding get the dead spot in the center of the bbl. Then I put a 1/4" wide strip of rubber (thickness depends on the space between the stock and bbl) in the stock under that dead spot. I do this at the range with different thickness of rubber until I find a piece thick enough that exerts upward pressure on the bbl while having the torque setting on the action screws either close to where they were or the same. Doing this deadened the 1st half of the bbl creating a shorter bbl that is stiffer. Stiffer ='s less bbl whip or turning a pencil bbl'd sporter into a bull bbl or a +/- 27" bull bbl into a +/- 13" bull bbl. I retest the bbl with corn starch after the middle dampener is installed checking 2 things. To see if it did deaden the 1st half of bbl (sometimes I need to put a +/- 10/1000's thicker piece of rubber in) and fine tune it if need be. The other thing I'm looking for is the dead spot in the 2nd half of the bbl now that the 1st half is deadened. You want that dead spot in the 2nd half of the bbl to be in the center of the piece of rubber and the muzzle. If there's room in the stock I'll do further testing with strips in the tip of the stock.

    Dampeners/pressure points being used in rifle stocks is nothing new. But by testing you can use these pressure points to shrink you groups. The other thing this type of testing does is tell you just how good your firearm is. I've tested rifles using cornstarch and never could get the dead spots in the center of the bbl or 2nd half of the bbl. Just the combo of the bbl's length, how it was bored (true or off center) along with how much vibration comes out of the bbl/receiver fit.

    I do test every rimfire rifle I buy and want to compete with (and yes high powers to) this way. If the dead spot isn't near the center of the bbl (naturally) or it can't be moved that rifle will never shoot well.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    @ Forrest r... That's a very interesting article, thanks for such a lengthy discussion, I'm sure more than just myself will benefit.

    You say... (If the dead spot isn't near the center of the bbl (naturally) or it can't be moved that rifle will never shoot well. )

    Question... In center-fire, does this mean that you can't ladder test this rifle and find a node, regardless of velocity...just find a node that'll shoot well?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  11. #91
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Putting a dampener at the stationary node shouldn't have much of an effect. Damping only can extract energy from something that is moving. Or did I read that wrong.?
    Cognitive Dissident

  12. #92
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    If you're interested in the nitty gritty of damping/tuning then I would suggest these are two places that will get you started.
    http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articl...g_a_barrel.htm

    And this site has half a dozen articles on tuning:
    https://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm

    Also Bill Calfee's book "The art of rimfire accuracy" contains a great deal of information.

  13. #93
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    The "Limb saver" damper is a quick and easy thing to try. Never tried it myself but have heard good reviews.
    https://limbsaver.com/products/sharp...arrel-dampener

  14. #94
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Occurs to me that the old time bench shooters like Chas. Rowland were onto something when they placed the forward rest right at the muzzle.
    Cognitive Dissident

  15. #95
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, Forrest r. Much appreciated.

    My gunsmith uncle (WWII armorer) once told me about proper packing of an SMLE barrel. They have cut-outs for the fitting of cork packers. I was thinking about that while looking at my rifles and wondering how I might apply the principle. We also spoke about weighting the muzzle end of the barrel to lessen muzzle movement.

    What I have done with my thin barreled, single mounting screw Voere is set a glazing cork under the rear of the action and clamp the action down so that it beds at the front of the fore-arm as originally made plus under the chamber area with the cork maintaining the pressure on the fore-end so that the fore-end and under chamber are hard down on the stock while the rear is essentially sitting on rubber. I used the compressible cork because I don't have any rubber, let alone the right thickness. I'll see how that works on Sunday. If it shows any promise I'll start a quest for the correct rubber thickness because the cork (which is actually a firm foam stuff) will change in pressure over time. Mind you, I did find some genuine cork packers. That's the packing stuck on panes of glass for stacking and transport.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Thanks for that, Forrest r. Much appreciated.

    My gunsmith uncle (WWII armorer) once told me about proper packing of an SMLE barrel. They have cut-outs for the fitting of cork packers. I was thinking about that while looking at my rifles and wondering how I might apply the principle. We also spoke about weighting the muzzle end of the barrel to lessen muzzle movement.

    What I have done with my thin barreled, single mounting screw Voere is set a glazing cork under the rear of the action and clamp the action down so that it beds at the front of the fore-arm as originally made plus under the chamber area with the cork maintaining the pressure on the fore-end so that the fore-end and under chamber are hard down on the stock while the rear is essentially sitting on rubber. I used the compressible cork because I don't have any rubber, let alone the right thickness. I'll see how that works on Sunday. If it shows any promise I'll start a quest for the correct rubber thickness because the cork (which is actually a firm foam stuff) will change in pressure over time. Mind you, I did find some genuine cork packers. That's the packing stuck on panes of glass for stacking and transport.
    I have a book written by Reynolds and Fulton "Target rifle shooting" with a whole chapter on regulating and bedding, with odd bits of cork/shims here and there, the .303 Lee Enfield Mk4. Fulton (of Bisley) regulated Mk4's were much sought after in my early days of TR shooting in the 1960's (all sling/aperture sights in those days.)
    I have found a good source of cork sheet to be table place mats, can be laminated together with PVA glue if necessary.

    I also have a Voere semi-auto .22lr. It has a good quality accurate barrel but a poor sloppy trigger - however, it has accounted for more rabbits than I care to think about over the 45 years I have owned it.

  17. #97
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Thin cork sheet used to be sold to line mechanics' toolbox drawers. McMaster-Carr has it in a myriad of thicknesses. https://www.mcmaster.com/cork-sheets Still used a lot for gaskets.
    Cognitive Dissident

  18. #98
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I won the auction for the aperture sight. Next step when it arrives is to make a mounting adaptor. I'm thinking I'll be using the post sight as is until I have made the globe arrangement.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #99
    Boolit Master VariableRecall's Avatar
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    Each time I see that homemade bullet trap I get quite jealous. I wish that I had property to work with, or at least, an outdoor range anywhere near me.

  20. #100
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Putting a dampener at the stationary node shouldn't have much of an effect. Damping only can extract energy from something that is moving. Or did I read that wrong.?
    You put dampeners in to move the stationary node.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check