New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[OS OK]

"I say that I choked but that's not really an accurate description of what happened..."
...actually I pushed my breath window again. Of all the shots to do that on, I picked this one.

That little voice inside kept repeating..."you got it, you got it...stay with it!"
The conscious me is hearing that and thinking..."I have to check the allignment one more time, this sight alignment has to be perfect..."

About 4 seconds later, another little voice is screaming at me..."let up, your pushing it...let up!"
Then the conscious me says..."BS...I got this."

And...in the end, I sit up and had to laugh at myself....I knew better, I had let off on 2 other shots today, this is what you deserve boy...you got exactly what you earned by doing the push!"
Then I laughed at me some more just to rub the lesson in real good!

I think that a non-diciplined shooter like me doesn't deserve little trophies like that cloverleaf for breaking the rules! Each time this hard'headed old'Fart makes a blunder of this magnitude I learn something that really sticks...this time it was.."DON'T PUSH THE BREATH WINDOW!"

[1066]

A trick often used in precision pistol shooting is not to use a spotting scope during the string for this very reason - use your spotting scope for sighters and maybe the first couple of shots then forget it. Just too much pressure when you have shot a 99 and have one more to shoot.

I shoot in a regular weekly short range league - now I can't claim to be any great shakes at offhand standing shooting but twice quite recently I've shot 9 consecutive bulls and snatched the last one. (i've yet to shoot a clean target in this competition)
This is shot with my .357 Winchester 94AE with a 2.5x scope at 20 yards, last shots the 9.

[uscra112]

Even Harry Pope admitted to pushing the breath window and pulling a shot. You're in good company.

[303Guy]

I have too many variables. Too many rifles at one session and too many ammo choices and then there is my questionable shooting. Apparently even the birds don't think much of my shooting.

The birds group is the same size as mine and it that's shooting backwards on the wing! But look at its second shot - same POI! And a tighter group.



Funny that it managed to hit my group.

Birds don't make good pets by the way - just saying.



Oh yes - my aperture sight should be arriving soon. I'm looking forward to that.

[OS OK]

1066... I've had passing thoughts about 'not' looking at every shot and haven't acted on them.
I've been looking to see if I called each one correctly...maybe I can try this eventually but only after I'm comfy with my cheek weld.

uscra112... I am so hard headed! I know it's a 'no-no' but I continue to do this...it ain't by choice as much as it is a doggedness to send that round. Crazy thinking heh? The discipline of this peep & globe is something else to master, there ain't no room to err.

303Guy... that lil'Birdie was being a 'wiseacre'! But, ya have'ta admit...he's a pretty good shot! heheee

[303Guy]

So, here are a pair of targets from the last range session.



That last, low group is an interesting one. Those are CCI Segmented HP 710 fps rounds - 38 grs I think. They are not long range cartridges anyway so that degree of accuracy is fine and they sound like they are fired through a suppressor (almost). For suppressor shooting they would be pretty quiet. Great for not disturbing the neighbors.

These targets tell me I should not be switching ammo types so much.

The story with Target A3 - 2&4 is that that the top target was the aim point, the shot higher up was the first turret adjustment and the on target the final adjustment. Notice that the scope is not tracking well. It's a cheapo and I'm assuming the cross hairs are not aligned properly. I'm leaving it like it is.

One thing I notice with the 511 is that the 'groups' don't seem to move much. Hard to tell with a pattern though. To me that's encouraging because it means the action is reasonably bedded and that the bad groups are either me or the ammo or both. So I'm going to pursue that rifle as it is and concentrate on my aiming and ammo selection.

[OS OK]

I am inclined to think that the groups that cluster nicely and then have 3 or 4 string off and group to themselves is a direct indication of my cheek weld changing.
Not changing in a big way at all but subtley, just a fraction differently than before, when I see the mean average centers of the groups moving around the spot from one target to the next (for example, when I go from the low to high target or vise versa) I again think it is my cheek weld.
I think I'm getting to where I can repeat it pretty well from one shot to the next but something I do is making it different so to speak. I am paying attention to the distance my eye is from the rear peep now as I think that may be the culprit.

(after thought) I just may put that airsoft BB back on the comb to act as a stop point for the front of my cheek. I had good luck with that before I lengthened the stock.

Here I have extended the stock with 2 half inch pieces of cutting board and was using the .38S case as a cheek stop, it wasn't a comfy feeling as the small BB.

[303Guy]

I have been wondering about my hold. I could easily have been putting irregular pressure on the stock. While my 511 has a nice trigger, the Toz trigger is awful. I know the shot sometimes goes off when I'm not ready but that doesn't mean it's causing my poor shooting. I may be not paying attention to my hold due to concentrating on the trigger.

OK, so I've just added more variables. But it's important I think to be aware all of those variables that need to be controlled. I used to shoot reasonably well with my 512 but not so much anymore. I've just realized that I changed the trigger which is now too stiff. I'm going to put the old trigger back and see what happens.

[OS OK]

I never used the 'pinch' technique on the trigger before and never realized the influence that the trigger hand has on the rifle...it's a heck of a lot of disturbance that doesn't need to be there in this lightest of recoiling rifles. like the .22lr.
Set up your cheek weld & lightly put your hand on or off the wrist as you maintain sight alignment...as you lightly grip. I can see it in the sight alignment, it's moving the rifle.
I never heard of this pinching the trigger before, it was just a wild idea for me and right away I liked that. You have to try to influence the rifle when just the pinching forefinger and thumb together, the trigger breaks so clean forcing the break from two directions instead of only using rearward force...
Another thing is getting behind the stock with the shoulder and preventing yourself from either draping yourself or a jacket edge over the rear of the stock, I feel like I am around the stock and behind it & certainly not appling any pressure from my shoulder either down or forwards...my shoulder is merely a stop that the rifle but is parked against.
The more I can do to not influence the rifle the better it gets.
Only my cheek weld is pressing straight down on the comb and under the butt is my closed & relaxed fist. The key for me to making this work is when I drop down on the cheek weld after pre-sighting over the sights is to find the target appear fully in the peep, then adjusting the position of the sight alignment requires the slightest of sqeeze or relaxartion of the under stock fist.
Wish I could explain this, I know it's concept is totally unorthodox but it is working for me and getting better and better.

[303Guy]

The aperture sight has arriven. It looks unused.



I did not know it mounted on a dovetail. I'm sure I can make a base with my lathe. I might have to grind a cutter though but I've done it before - I'm hoping I still have it.

It came with a 0.75 aperture which I suppose will work with my eyes. It will be easy enough to make apertures. There is a bluing technique, boiling the part in distilled water. Or I can use bluing salts. Anyway, time to play!

[tazman]

The more I can do to not influence the rifle the better it gets.
Only my cheek weld is pressing straight down on the comb and under the butt is my closed & relaxed fist. The key for me to making this work is when I drop down on the cheek weld after pre-sighting over the sights is to find the target appear fully in the peep, then adjusting the position of the sight alignment requires the slightest of sqeeze or relaxartion of the under stock fist.
Wish I could explain this, I know it's concept is totally unorthodox but it is working for me and getting better and better.

I understand your explanation perfectly and it isn't as unorthodox as you think. I do the same thing except I use a bag under the butt stock and squeeze the bag with my off side hand to change elevation minutely.
What you describe is a pretty standard technique and is widely used with minor variations due to personal preference.
Use what works for you. Very few people are built so that identical positioning will work. Differences in hand size and body proportions make a lot of difference in how things work for a given individual.
Personally, I think you are doing extremely well. I know that I can't do as well as you are doing with open sights.

I remember reading in the book about Carlos Hathcock that he only had one other man in his sniper squad who could use the same rifle without sight adjustment. Each person will shoot a rifle(or handgun for that matter) differently even though they use the same basic techniques.
I shot a friends rifle one session and his impact point at 100 yards was over 4 inches from mine.

[OS OK]

303Guy... First step accomplished...it's in your hands. It looks in good shape...what are your plans for the front globe assembly?

tazman... I use a bag under the stock also but it's a small flat one I use for a shim under my fist...



This peep system reminds me of old'Skool scope mounting where we would sight through the bore and adjust the cross hairs so the scope would be on paper when the first shots were fired. Accuracy in doing it that way is all dependent on how carefully you center up that bore-sighting...same thing with the peep, that's why I am putting so much emphasis on my cheek weld.

[1066]

The aperture sight has arriven. It looks unused.



I did not know it mounted on a dovetail. I'm sure I can make a base with my lathe. I might have to grind a cutter though but I've done it before - I'm hoping I still have it.

It came with a 0.75 aperture which I suppose will work with my eyes. It will be easy enough to make apertures. There is a bluing technique, boiling the part in distilled water. Or I can use bluing salts. Anyway, time to play!

That sight with the side dovetail mount looks like one I have - originally fitted to a Vostok CM-2 Russian single shot target rifle. Works very well with positive clicks and no backlash.

[303Guy]

I'm thinking it's Russian looking at the letters.

OS, I'm going to a while to fit this thing and at this stage I am not sure about the globe. The globe would depend on the height of the aperture. I see I will have to trim the stock but to keep the trimming to a minimum the sight will end up higher than normal.

Something I'm finding is that looking through the tiny aperture, it does not appear round. If I force my eye wider open it goes round. So either my eyes need a larger diameter insert or my eyes don't like apertures. I did try looking through it with reading glasses on and that seemed to work. So, my first step is to make a simple aperture or two of different sizes and hold them in place with blue tac or something to make sure my eyes will work. My left eye sees the aperture as round. Different strength glasses would be worth testing too. Removing the insert and looking through the big aperture seems OK.

My rest fully supports the rifle. All I do is move the but stock with my hand and shoulder. It's not flash - I made it in a hurry some years ago and the cockroaches ate the decorative paper I put on it off. Now it looks tatty but it still works. However, it might not be the way to be shooting.

[OS OK]

Today was a pretty good day but not exceptional.
I wanted to set the cheek stop to eliminate the distance problem from my eye to the peep...



Just a small piece of plastic from my junk drawer.
This would allow me to index my cheek forward on the comb but not too close and do the preliminary sighting over the peep & globe to align the spot I wanted to shoot.



After preliminary/rough sight alignment I can drop my head down and apply pressure under my cheek bone to the comb of the stock. Here I see the spot I am aiming at within the rear peep and little/subtle adjustment is need to align the target perfectly as I am able...



This little cheek stop & putting an effort forth to stop pushing my 'breath window' was the two main things I wanted to accomplish today.
The target spots tell a different story...





I am still 'stringing' my shots & I think it is from a difference of cheek bone pressure down on the comb and the amount of flesh/meat that I have between my skull and the comb. If I press a little too much against the side of the comb as I drop down I am able to trap more or less tissue/meat in my face between those two points and I believe that this makes for a bit of a vertical string in the group. A few shots I went ahead and pressed my time in the breath window and what you see above I think shows that pretty well.
How the heck do I convince a 'hard'headed old'Fart' to quit pushing? The answer is beyond me!

Now I know that these 3" spots are deceiving when it comes to the measurements I have written on the targets but I assure you that I am being as honest as possible...I ain't trying to impress anyone with my shooting, it needs thousands of more shots to get better but here's a couple photos to show that I'm trying to accurately measure the groups...





That's it for today...nothing to write home about but I was able to totally escape the absolute insane & crazy world we live in for a couple hours...I call that a ... 'WIN'

[303Guy]

There seems to be a consistency between the sets of targets. That 5/8" group to my mind shows that you are getting it figured. Have you tried deliberately applying pressure at different angles and different amounts to see it affects your groups or shifts the POI?

On my side, I have to wait another week to get to the range. Hopefully my new ammo will arrive before then. I had to fill in a form and take in to the firearms officer and he will email the vendor when he's processed it and only then will the goods get shipped. I've left it a bit late.

Anyway, I had a play with apertures and found that a 2mm aperture (flash hole size) seems to be about right for me to see a round hold and focus the front ring and target. Just holding them out by hand.

[uscra112]

On my side, I have to wait another week to get to the range. Hopefully my new ammo will arrive before then. I had to fill in a form and take in to the firearms officer and he will email the vendor when he's processed it and only then will the goods get shipped. I've left it a bit late.

It's actually that bad there?

[303Guy]

Yup. They are passing more and more restrictive laws. I don't know whether it is paranoia or criminal abuse or the leftist liberals but it began before the Christchurch massacre. I think that has been used to clamp down. Well, they had to show the world they were doing something I suppose or we might have suffered a few revenge shopping mall attacks. I don't know the truth.

[55fairlane]

I hope you will welcome my non small bore post, I shoot a match rifle with apature sights. I thought I'd share my rifle and a couple of 300 yard targets.










Want the most out of your apature sights? Allow my to offer a few thoughts.
A bloop tube or sight extension tube is a must, the longer the sight radius the more accurate.
Both of my sights have adjustable irises in them rear iris is used to make clear (not blurry as you look at it) front iris is used to create sight picture (i.e. small thin wisp of white around target)
Front sight has a magnifying lens in it and a sun shape. Front sight also moves up/down in 5 minute graduation
These sights make the ones on my anschutz look like the cheap....
Good shooting guys!

[OS OK]

Holy Cow!
Talking about taking this to the next level!

I guess I wouldn't be so amazed at your rig if I were to hang with the competition crowd but never have. I suppose that's where a fella can stay on the cutting edge.
I'll bet my rig is not worth the price of just your sight system, that's really cool.

Yes...you are welcome to post here, everyone is. I appreciate all the 'tips-N-tricks' posted here but can only use few of them as I'm planning on staying bone stock with this system I am using...heck it'll be a while before I can even get the most from what I have now.

Thanks for posting your gear and pearls of wisdom here.