Primer Shortage?

[farmbif]

if things keep up ammo prices will be sky high and when I'm able to trade my primers for a Cessna 172, the primers will be going

[Retumbo]

10,000 does not sound like a lot. I have not purchased primers for years but I use large pistol, small pistol, large rifle, small rifle, bench rest small rifles, magnum small pistol, magnum large pistol, magnum large rifle, 209's and number 11 percussion caps. One box of each would be 10,000 primers if I only tried one brand I know I have more than one brand of some of the ones I use most often. I did not do an inventory but each time I take out a sleeve, if I am low I make a note but stock up and I have no note on being short of anything.

Tim

Us Canadians shoot less than you 'MERICANS

Lmao

[dverna]

The price to do it with a corrosive mix one can figure between $0.30 to $1.00 per 1000. With a non-corrosive mix one should figure $1.00 to $5.00 per 1000, depending on which mix and what you have to start with.

The time really varies because of what equipment one has and how many you want to make. If you do them one at a time I'd allow 45 minutes to an hour for it.

I have primer plates that are made along the lines of what are or have been used. For some sizes they will do 100 at a time. Using that one it would be 10 minutes at the most if making a total of 100.

I've never done it, but I'd estimate that with plates for making 100 at a time one should be able to 2000 to 3000 per hour.

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.

Thank you for sharing that information.

At a saving of $30/1000 and production rate of 2000/hr it works out to a very significant cost savings...if they work. Heck even if just used for training, plinking and fun shooting, that covers 90% of primer consumption for a lot of high volume shooters.

Would you be kind enough to show a picture of the plates? I envision a perforated plate attached to a base plate to make it cheap and easy to produce.

[tomme boy]

if things keep up ammo prices will be sky high and when I'm able to trade my primers for a Cessna 172, the primers will be going

BIL just bought a 182

[perotter]

Thank you for sharing that information.

At a saving of $30/1000 and production rate of 2000/hr it works out to a very significant cost savings...if they work. Heck even if just used for training, plinking and fun shooting, that covers 90% of primer consumption for a lot of high volume shooters.

Would you be kind enough to show a picture of the plates? I envision a perforated plate attached to a base plate to make it cheap and easy to produce.

Life is simpler IMO when a person can just buy the primers they want/need, but DIY will keep a person shooting as much as they want.

If I happen to find them, as I haven't used them is several years, I'll take a picture. I'm in the delayed process(got injured) of moving both that area where I reload, the area where I did primers and shop equipment.

You are figuring correct for the most part as to what they look like. But there has to matched plates that are indexed with each other. You should have at least 2 plates, but might want as many as 4 or 5(of the top of my head and latter I'll list them). The must have ones are one for the cups and one for the anvils. The attached base should be easily removable. I made them extra long enough to put primer compound on before scrapping it into the cups when using a dry mix. Based on how much you want to fiddle around, total desired and how safe you want to be. The last one is extremely high for me.

You'll be happier if the primers are sorted and kept separated by brand, as the anvils seem to fit better when used with the same brand cup. Also I'd suggest making a single one for just 5 to 10 cups to learn/test with.

If a corrosive mix primer doesn't work, a person did something very wrong. If I wanted to practice a bunch, I'd be reloading them. FWIW I have made a couple of cup just for fun.

[Froogal]

Okay. We've figured out how to make our own primers, and we know how to make our own bullets, but what happens when our brass becomes compromised and unuseable? We also know how to make our own BLACK powder, but has anyone figured out how to make SMOKELESS powder?

Seems like if we are to continue in this hobby, we all need to go back to the flintlock era.

[MUSTANG]

........

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.

Request Again: Can you provide a Picture or a Link to the single primer plate or the match plate you mention? Would like to build as it should beat the heck out of my one at a time on the bench top.

[perotter]

Request Again: Can you provide a Picture or a Link to the single primer plate or the match plate you mention? Would like to build as it should beat the heck out of my one at a time on the bench top.

I'll give it a try to post diagram. But it's been a few years since I've attached anything here.

I also have the dxf file that this came from and can try to send that you.

PrimerPlate.pdf

Wow got it. Easier than I remember it being.

What I attached is for 100 primers and shows 1/8" holes. Those holes are pilot holes that need to be then sized to whatever size primers on needs. The 1/4" holes are for aligning the plate for matching when desired.

[perotter]

Okay. We've figured out how to make our own primers, and we know how to make our own bullets, but what happens when our brass becomes compromised and unuseable? We also know how to make our own BLACK powder, but has anyone figured out how to make SMOKELESS powder?

Seems like if we are to continue in this hobby, we all need to go back to the flintlock era.

I've made a few different smokeless powers. Including nitrocellulose ones, along with several different ammid/ammon powder formulations.

If nothing else, the extremely careful and thoughtful person can try the ammid powders that are in the A&O book that is available online at aardvark. The main things with the ammonium nitrate powders is get the linear burn rate into to same range as the nc powders we use and fix the problems with changes due to temperature. An ammid powder fixes both of those problems, plus ignites better.

BUT, you can get into trouble real fast with a DIY smokeless powder! So I don't think it is for every person out there who reloads. In an ideal world one has a way to test pressure.

As cartridges have been made for a bit over 180 years, I wouldn't drag a flintlock home unless it was an actual old timer and free.

[MUSTANG]

I'll give it a try to post diagram. But it's been a few years since I've attached anything here.

I also have the dxf file that this came from and can try to send that you.

PrimerPlate.pdf

Wow got it. Easier than I remember it being.

What I attached is for 100 primers and shows 1/8" holes. Those holes are pilot holes that need to be then sized to whatever size primers on needs. The 1/4" holes are for aligning the plate for matching when desired.

Thanks Perotter. The pdf gives some help in getting started building a primer plate.

[perotter]

Thanks Perotter. The pdf gives some help in getting started building a primer plate.

You're welcome.

If you are going to use a dry mix you might not want to make it for 100. More like for 50 or 60. Also if you do as I normally do and use a wet mix, you'll want a plate that is about 1/2 the thickness of the the cup.

FWIW I used standard sized drill bits that I could be locally. In theory they aren't the perfect size, but seem to work fine

[dverna]

Interesting thread drift...but a good one.

There are two issues that are drivers for me. The primary one is cost savings. It is the only reason I cast and reload. The second is safety....whatever I do must have minimal risk.

For plinking ammunition, performance is not a huge issue. Good enough is good enough. If I could save $30/1000 on primers, and safely produce 1000 per hour I will remanufacture primers. So I need to study that a bit in depth.

[dtknowles]

If I can't buy primers I will make them but I would pay a lot for primers before I resorted to making them.

Tim

[dverna]

I watched some videos and I must be missing something. I would put the production rate of making primers at 100 per hour...maybe less. I can see it as a SHTF knowledge to have if primers were not available, but I would pay $100/thousand and shoot less...and/or differently.

My cost for a box of .38's with cast bullets, (what I shoot the most) is $3.00. With $100 primers it is $7.70
5.56 with jacketed is $4.10/box. With $100 primers it is $5.60
.308 Cast is $2.00, and with $100 primers it comes to $3.50/box.

I use .38's for plinking and target practice. With $100 primers, I would shoot less CF and more .22's (yes I have cases of .22's bought cheap - under $2/box)

The CF rifles used the most are .223/5.56. At $4/box is is affordable and I have a good supply of bulk jacketed bullets for them. But I use 25 gr. of powder that costs about $200/jug. If I switched to cast .308's with 13 gr of powder that is $120/jug, I can load a box for $3.50. I would still get the same amount of range time for a bit less cost, but with more work (casting and lube/sizing) than shooting jacketed 5.56.

Because I enjoy shooting I will find a way to shoot. Even if I need to buy a PCP gun to do so.

The downside of these high prices is that people who were borderline about casting/reloading/shooting will have another reason to stop reloading and shooting as much. That hurts the sport. The upside, is we can expect to see equipment and possibly even weapons being sold off as people lose interest and motivation.

[perotter]

I watched some videos and I must be missing something. I would put the production rate of making primers at 100 per hour...maybe less. I can see it as a SHTF knowledge to have if primers were not available, but I would pay $100/thousand and shoot less...and/or differently.

.......

You have been watching videos of people using test or survival methods to do it. Try to find a video of how factories do it, there used to be some on youtube that showed it. Or read G. Frost's book 'Ammunition Making'. There is one other book on primer making that tells about how the factories do it, but I can't think of the name of author right now. Also there are several old books that, while the their main topic isn't primers, show the equipment factories used in the 1880-1900 era for primers.

One needs to think things thru. If it takes an hour to do 100, the labor at a factory would be $300 per 1000. And the factories haven't been selling them at that big of a hit.

Also some food for thought. I'd bet no member here reloads much ammo without any equipment beyond a rock and a nail. How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it? Both can be and have been done.

[tarbe]

Quote: How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it?
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Never thought of that. Who needs a mold? haha

[Winger Ed.]

How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it? Both can be and have been done.

I've been wanting to pour molten Aluminum into fire ant mounds, but never thought of casting boolits using a hole in the ground.

[perotter]

I've been wanting to pour molten Aluminum into fire ant mounds, but never thought of casting boolits using a hole in the ground.

If you can't buy what you need or want, you have to figure out a way around buying, suffer or you didn't need it in the first place. For hunting, making bullets out of clay with a coiled wire inside are/have been common where lead isn't available. Much can be learned from those who have lived or live in other parts of the world.

[perotter]

I look it up and using 100 plus year old tech with plates for 500, normal rate of production is calculated at 6250 primers per hour. Of course that is new primers where the old anvil and the dimple don't have to be removed.

[dverna]

I look it up and using 100 plus year old tech with plates for 500, normal rate of production is calculated at 6250 primers per hour. Of course that is new primers where the old anvil and the dimple don't have to be removed.

But, the anvil must be removed (and I have only seen caveman technology used to do that), and the dimple swaged out (more caveman tech). I can see having a primer feeder to feed primers to a station where the anvil is picked out (and saved), then the primer is advanced to another station where a die like a GC maker presses out the dimple. A guy like Mr Morrris could build something that would get the job done...but that is way past my ability.

Then the parts need to washed three times (according to one of the links you posted). Then make up the paste. fill the cup with paste before it dries, and reinsert the anvil. I see how the 100 unit plate comes into play for that.

The highest production rate I have ever achieved is 850 rounds an hour on a 1050 with clean cases, and prefilled primer tubes, I cannot envision how I can remanufacture primers any faster. BTW, my normal rate on the 1050 is closer to 700/hr (I am not as good at operating stuff as others). With what I know now, 100/hr is going to be a lot closer than 2000/hr to remanufacture primers.

I could not find a video showing primers being produced in quantity. If anyone has a link that would be interesting. But it looks like a survival skill for desperate times for the very poor who could not afford to prepare, or those too foolish to prepare.

No one on this site is remanufacturing primers in a reasonable quantity (or willing to broadcast it?) and we make our own bullets and ammunition. Some have stated they will stop shooting rather than spend $100/1000 for primers. That may change if things get worse. Other reloaders are spending as much as $200/1000 for primers on GB to have ammunition.

Folks will do what they need to do. Either stop/reduce shooting, remanufacture primers, or pay market price. The answer is different for each of us.

I would like the ability to remanufacture primers but it needs to be safe, produce a quality product, and worth my time. I would invest $1500 in a machine/process that remanufactured primers at a rate of 500/hr and a cost of $10/1000. Not interested in caveman technology. They would be used for plinking and fun shooting where most primers are consumed. I would never run out of primers for serious needs.