Primer Shortage?

[Winger Ed.]

Ammo sales were banned from 1968 to 1986???

For mail order ammo---- and components, had go between FFLs back then.

That was why I got a FFL in 1982, was to buy reloading components from distributors that shipped USPS or UPS.
You couldn't buy brass, powder, primers, or bullets without one unless you were 'face to face'.

[Finster101]

You can sell home made cast bullets but you need an ITAR certificate (over $2000) to do it legally. I was going to set up a small side business and stopped when I learned that. Not sure if an FFL is also needed, but $2000 killed it so I never went farther.

The fines are significant so unless you know the person, be careful you do not get caught up in a sting operation if you decide to sell bullets you made. There were rumors Trump was going to repeal some of the stupid ITAR stuff but it never happened and now it will never happen...at least in my lifetime.

I suspect even bartering would be deemed a sale. Just not worth it IMHO.

Not to mention the liability insurance that you would probably need to carry.

[Lloyd Smale]

heck id make someone a great deal. Id sell spent primers for a 100 bucks a thousand and even pay shipping

[dverna]

Not to mention the liability insurance that you would probably need to carry.

The liability insurance was not very expensive IIRC. It is not like ammunition where there is a higher risk due to errors in manufacturing.

[Conditor22]

I don't sell cast boolits, I sell boolit shaped lead ingots

[dverna]

Strange story.

Over the last week I sold a huge portion of my primer inventory. The buyer was an interesting young man. Lieutenant in the Army and a competitive shooter...a good one who wins often. Last weekend he picked up the first load and yesterday the second load.

Yesterday I asked him why he was buying so much....was he buying for some of his buddies too? He said, "No, it is for my personal use." He told me how much he shot and I looked at him and asked, "Why are you paying four times normal pricing for a three year supply? Are you expecting a civil war?" He gave a sly smile and said, "If there is a civil war, I will be getting all the ammunition I need from the Army"

This guy was impressive. Cool, business like, and highly intelligent. He is stocking up for a long long time. He obviously does not believe a "normal" supply/price in the next couple of years. It was a bit unsettling. Made me wish I had held back another 30k.

I have about a 4 year supply for normal shooting activity and it would last a lifetime under SHTF (70 YO so no much chance of living long...LOL). Buying some stuff we want should the SHTF, but most will be saved so we can buy back when things get back to "normal" and wait for the next cycle. I figured it would take 2 years to get to "normal"...hope I am right. Like I said, it was unsettling...wonder what he knows.

[Bazoo]

He don't know nothing you don't. I knowed a guy who was ex army. He's passed now, but he was like 24 when I knowed him a few years ago. Long story short he told me there was talk of what would happen should they receive gun confiscation orders. He said the brass would go along with it but hardly any of the soldiers would. I was told there had been talk of liberation of equipment and munitions should such ever happen.

[ameenkitekar]

I don't think he lives in the US and maybe doesn't have real supply of used primers.

Yes you are correct, I am from India. Primers can be reused, and we do that. Smokeless propellant is the main issue, we use powder from Shotgun cartridges. Is there anyone who can export 5 kg powder to India legally

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[tomme boy]

He don't know nothing you don't. I knowed a guy who was ex army. He's passed now, but he was like 24 when I knowed him a few years ago. Long story short he told me there was talk of what would happen should they receive gun confiscation orders. He said the brass would go along with it but hardly any of the soldiers would. I was told there had been talk of liberation of equipment and munitions should such ever happen.

The military just like the LEO's will do whatever they are told to do.

[kerplode]

The military just like the LEO's will do whatever they are told to do.

And the few that don't follow orders will be replace by others that will.

[perotter]

Yes you are correct, I am from India. Primers can be reused, and we do that. Smokeless propellant is the main issue, we use powder from Shotgun cartridges. Is there anyone who can export 5 kg powder to India legally

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Any legal export would have to have a needed paper work of both governments. So it wouldn't be a simple process.

Personally if I lived in India, I'd make my own smokeless powder. Best done with some kind of equipment to test pressure.

Given that India isn't a backwater, what would be needed would be available there. Equipment for testing pressure is now widely used in many industrial processes. As are the chemicals needed. Biggest problem is making a pure product.

[ameenkitekar]

Brother if you guide me with chemical formulation, procedure and the names of pressure measuring equipments for making smokeless powder, I will be obliged.
Dr. Kitekar

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[farmbif]

I don't know about primers powder or loaded ammo but I got a shipment of once fired brass confiscated by customs coming from another country.
I had no idea there could be a problem till I got a letter saying I need to show up at a hearing and can bring a lawyer if I wanted to claim the shipment of about 150 pcs of used brass.
so I imagine trying to ship something that is flammable or explosive needs special permits and licenses , probably reams of legal paperwork too.
if you want to create components I guess there must be info somewhere if you know what you're doing.
I would not want to try and tell someone how to make anything that could be an explosive, I'll willing to bet there are laws about that kind of stuff.

[Bazoo]

The military just like the LEO's will do whatever they are told to do.

And the few that don't follow orders will be replace by others that will.

I fear you're right, but I hope that there will be widespread defection.

[perotter]

Brother if you guide me with chemical formulation, procedure and the names of pressure measuring equipments for making smokeless powder, I will be obliged.
Dr. Kitekar

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https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

That is the brand I have. The hardware and the software is designed for ammunition.

Otherwise if I had to come up with something on my own more or less, I'd start with what is called a "Crimp Force Monitor". They are made for the presses used to put on the terminals for electrical connection in the wire industry. They are really more accurate than what I gave the link for, have good software, available on the used market, etc. But them I'm very familiar with them and would be staying with the devil I know.

As for the chemicals, it depends on the desired outcome. Longevity of the powder, how easy to make, desired use, cost, etc.

Ammonium nitrate ones are the cheapest and about simplest. There are some in the A&O book available are the arradvak website that is linked in these thread. Be sure to use one that is 7-10% potassium nitrate. Also I'd recommend adding 1-5% potassium dichromate-nasty stuff and DON'T get any on your body. Nasty but the best getting the desired mass burn rate. By the way, AN based ones have always been the holy grail of smokeless powder and is still being worked one.

There are several others that can be made besides those that are nitrocellulose based. Guanine based ones fairly simple, the chemicals needed are available in a store and what I'm currently looking into again.

But for normal nitrocellulose based powder, the simplest is to see if you can get actual lacquer as that is nitrocellulose. I normally add by weight 10% potassium nitrate or sometimes AN at a greater per cent. But the lacquer you buy would likely have urea in it to stabilize it, which over time creates voids in the grains and increases the burn rate. Therefore one doesn't want to wait to long before using it. IMO for DIY, a flake powder is best because it's the easiest to change burn rate by increasing the thickness or the size using the same equipment.

For nitrocellulose powder starting with just the base chemicals, one would need to really sit down and decide if it is needed. For example a shotgun/pistol powder is much easier to do than a full powered rifle powder. Also for a start read Urbanski's volume 2 book on making the base and what Mendeleev wrote on doing it, otherwise it can get very expensive to make.

Keep me up to date and let me know what you are thinking of doing.

By the way, I've mainly worked with AN based ones and of the 100-200,000 rounds I've loaded and shot only about 2000 have been done with DIY powders. Kind of like gasoline. I can't make other fuel to run an engine, but a lot simpler to buy gasoline or diesel for may needs currently.

[Scrounge]

The military just like the LEO's will do whatever they are told to do.

And you know that because? I've been retired for nearly as long as I was in, but I think you misjudge most of the folks in the current military. Yes, there are some who will go along, both military and police. There are also some who won't. I'm betting my life there are more of the "won'ts" than "will's."

[375supermag]

And you know that because? I've been retired for nearly as long as I was in, but I think you misjudge most of the folks in the current military. Yes, there are some who will go along, both military and police. There are also some who won't. I'm betting my life there are more of the "won'ts" than "will's."

Remember Kent State???
National Guard shot down unarmed college students because they were ordered to.
They will shoot you if ordered to...they would rather live with that than spend a large part of their life in Leavenworth.
Bank on it...

[ameenkitekar]

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

That is the brand I have. The hardware and the software is designed for ammunition.

Otherwise if I had to come up with something on my own more or less, I'd start with what is called a "Crimp Force Monitor". They are made for the presses used to put on the terminals for electrical connection in the wire industry. They are really more accurate than what I gave the link for, have good software, available on the used market, etc. But them I'm very familiar with them and would be staying with the devil I know.

As for the chemicals, it depends on the desired outcome. Longevity of the powder, how easy to make, desired use, cost, etc.

Ammonium nitrate ones are the cheapest and about simplest. There are some in the A&O book available are the arradvak website that is linked in these thread. Be sure to use one that is 7-10% potassium nitrate. Also I'd recommend adding 1-5% potassium dichromate-nasty stuff and DON'T get any on your body. Nasty but the best getting the desired mass burn rate. By the way, AN based ones have always been the holy grail of smokeless powder and is still being worked one.

There are several others that can be made besides those that are nitrocellulose based. Guanine based ones fairly simple, the chemicals needed are available in a store and what I'm currently looking into again.

But for normal nitrocellulose based powder, the simplest is to see if you can get actual lacquer as that is nitrocellulose. I normally add by weight 10% potassium nitrate or sometimes AN at a greater per cent. But the lacquer you buy would likely have urea in it to stabilize it, which over time creates voids in the grains and increases the burn rate. Therefore one doesn't want to wait to long before using it. IMO for DIY, a flake powder is best because it's the easiest to change burn rate by increasing the thickness or the size using the same equipment.

For nitrocellulose powder starting with just the base chemicals, one would need to really sit down and decide if it is needed. For example a shotgun/pistol powder is much easier to do than a full powered rifle powder. Also for a start read Urbanski's volume 2 book on making the base and what Mendeleev wrote on doing it, otherwise it can get very expensive to make.

Keep me up to date and let me know what you are thinking of doing.

By the way, I've mainly worked with AN based ones and of the 100-200,000 rounds I've loaded and shot only about 2000 have been done with DIY powders. Kind of like gasoline. I can't make other fuel to run an engine, but a lot simpler to buy gasoline or diesel for may needs currently.

Thanks, i will be in touch with you. Need to understand many things as I am new to all these. +919920954250 is my WhatsApp number, if you dont mind ping me on it from your WhatsApp number.


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[1eyedjack]

Just left our local Bass Pro shop - may as well gone to a convenience store - zero except for 1 box of 41 mag & a few exotics entire ammo supply could have been stocked in a single 4' section !! A year ago they kept 5 aisles of ammo!! Handguns were non existent except for a few very high end pieces!!! Once lately saw a Pentecostal grandma buying a Glock until the salesman said "sorry I don't have any ammo to shoot it with" ....probably why BPS still had their handful of 1k plus handguns!!

[Blanket]

not worried at all about shooting like normal, sucks that I will have to load for doves as I have not loaded a 12 gauge shell for 20 years