Anybody know this rifle?

[leadeye]

I know there are Uberti reproductions of the 1876, how close would the parts he's missing be?

[sharps4590]

Time and patience will see the project through.....with some money....and maybe some machine skills.

Congrats...and they are cool rifles!!

[indian joe]

I know there are Uberti reproductions of the 1876, how close would the parts he's missing be?

Over on the CAS city site there is a dedicated 1876 forum and a couple blokes there that would know for sure if these parts fit - pretty sure that chapparal was same as winchester but then there were numerous quality issues with some of those chappy rifles.

[Earl Brasse]

Good luck on your new Winter project.
Some parts turn up on E-Bay that vary from reasonable to unbelievable depending on the day & the part.
I found an original follower for a 45-60 I had once for a little more than a repro.

How long is your barrel, most were 28"?

[KenH]

A quick google search tells me that CAS is "Cowboy Action Shooting" site. I registered and waiting for my email to be verified. That will be a good resource, and might even find some parts over there.

I should have already measured the barrel, I was thinking "rifle", but it looks like it's a 22" barrel, so that makes it a carbine? I'm "assuming" all the receiver parts will interchange with rifle. With a serial number of 40xxx it looks like it's a 1883 yr of manuf making it the 3rd model. Today I placed an order for a 16.5" magazine tube on ebay for $30, but with shipping 'n taxes making it $40. There are several parts listed on ebay, but boy are they proud of the one set of side plates at $250 for the set. Is that anything like reasonable?

Not sure this will be just a "winter" project, might take me a bit longer to find enough parts. I'm sure I'll be making lots of screws and pins that will be required. I've make a few screws in the past for a rolling block project and other stuff.

I just got approved and signed into CAS forum. Found the 1876 forum and doing some reading there now.

Ken H>

[veeman]

The 76 forum has some really fine fella's there with lots of knowledge. They will get you all the info you need to get this project on the road to completion. A few of the regulars are here too.

[KenH]

For an update on the project - no real work has been done yet other than cleaning.

I've got the magazine tube ordered from ebay and it shows out for delivery today. I'll make the magazine plug and follower. I expect to make some of the screws also.

I placed an order with Cimarron today for a few parts. The Cimarron is actually an Uberti, so the VTI Uberti parts should be the same as Cimarron parts. Today I ordered the following:

1 x Part #7 Carrier Block 2500007 (will need some grinding to make fit)
1 x Part # 73 &74 Right & left Side Plates (both side plates should fit nicely)
1 x Part # 90 Lifter Arm (hoping it will fit ok once I can find a carrier block)
1 x Part # 96 Magazine Spring
1 x Part # 98 Firing Pin (still need other part, but think I might can make that one.)

These parts are in stock and should ship today.
I'm still looking for the breech block w/extractor, lever (finger lever), and the toggle links.

With the magazine tube I should be able to start work on forearm - got plenty of walnut wood.

Project is moving along, but slowly. I'm thinking I want some 40-60 brass just to have. Drop in chamber type of thing

I need to slug barrel to confirm diameter for a bullet mold.

Later

[KenH]

A quick update to project. I've got a pair of Uberti sideplates that only took a small amount of filing to make them work. I'd read they were a "drop in" replacement for original, but the set I got wouldn't drop in. I had to file around the edges some - not a lot. I also got the carrier block installed which required a tad more grinding to clean up 'n fit.


I'm working on a walnut forearm now and hopefully complete fitting next week when I get the endcap for the forearm. I've got the magazine tube with spring, end plug and follower ready to go.

[725]

This is such a cool project. Following with interest.

[veeman]

Need to somehow age those side plates to match. Keep up the good work!

[KenH]

Yep, once I get the rifle all together I plan to "age" all the parts together so they'll blend and look similar. I was trying to decide if a new blue job for everything, or to age everything. I think I like the idea of ageing the parts to blend and look "old". Once I get the lever and a make a rear sight I think I'll have about everything that will need ageing. Today I ordered a dust cover from Dixie Gun Works so it will need ageing also.

[Gtek]

I'll take too big and needs to be fit over falls in and rattles any day! Your on the good side, enjoy!

[missionary5155]

Been hunting about and no drawings yet
But just left the Uberti web and they claim their rifle is an exact copy of the Winchester .
The low # Chappi rifles were a maybe OK. The later rifles (past 1000) were much better We have two ( 50-95 and Canadian Monty) which are nicely put together. Our 50-95 shoots 350 grain cast 2.5" groups all day long at 100 yards off cross sticks using 3F Goex.

[KenH]

The Uberti parts are a very close copy, but not exact. Those are the parts I've purchased. Got more parts coming from VTI that should be delivered Monday. I'll know more about those parts then. One of the parts I'm concerned about is the breech block (bolt). I is a fun project - and parts too large are better than too small for sure.

missionary5155: Thank you for looking drawings. I have purchased "Winchester Lever Action Repeating Firearms : The Models of 1866, 1873 & 1876" by Arthur Pirkle. It has good line drawings, but not really dimensioned accurately enough to build parts from.

[KenH]

OK, time for an update. This is current look with the start of a forearm in place and side plates fitted.

I got the VTI order today with rear part of firing pin - now have both parts with a spring I've got that seems to work. Next is to make the firing pin stop to fit the Uberti breech bolt.

I got the Uberti breech bolt and without the lever it's really hard to tell how well the breech bolt will function, but it seems to. There is an issue with the tab on bottom of bolt face preventing the bolt from fully closing and grasping the rim of cartridge. From what I can see that tab (tit?) shouldn't extend past the thickness of the cartridge rim because there is not a relieved place in barrel for it to extend into. The barrel is flat, and I can see where a tab (tit) has pressed against the barrel face in the past. There is a nice extractor slot into the barrel on top for the extractor to fit into. I'm thinking that tit needs to be "touched" with a file to the same thickness as the cartridge rim. Does that make sense?

The right and left lever springs seem to fit and work as they should, again without the lever no way to really tell. The carrier block does hold down as it seems like it should with the right side spring.

The forend protection cap seems to fit as it should. The forearm I made won't work with the end cap. I was concerned about it being thick enough on bottom at the forend. I'd picked up a scrap piece of walnut that was laying around to do a practice forearm. Now to cut a piece of walnut that will fit and do the forearm right.

Thanks to a GREAT boardmember here I've got a set of toggle links coming to use as a pattern to make a set. Yes, it will push my machining ability, and might have to make a couple sets to get them right. That's the beauty of being retired - plenty of time to work on projects {g} Once the links are made, then the lever will be the big thing. Both VTI and Cimarron have the lever and toggle links on backorder from Italy and no idea when they'll get them. Hopefully this winter sometime?

[KenH]

Rather than starting a new thread I'll ask a question on this thread - or would it be better to start new thread to ask about ageing metal?

The Uberti parts I got for the 1876 have a new black looking finish. I'd like to remove the black finish and "age" the parts, make the new parts look more like the old patina on the existing rifle. I'm thinking just sand off finish using a fine sand paper - perhaps to an 800 grit finish? 400 grit? Then wipe down with vinegar and let sit a while. OR - perhaps FeCl solution? I use FeCl for etching Damascus for the pattern so have some on hand.

Comments and guidance please,

Ken H>

[KenH]

OK, for a short update to the project rifle. Thanks to a board member I've been able to make a couple of toggle links that work. For the needed parts I've either made or purchased Uberti parts for the rifle. Again a special THANK YOU to a kind member of the board who sent me a set of toggle links to use as a pattern. I wouldn't have been able to make the links without his kind assistance.

I'll talk about the Uberti firing pin problem. When moving the bolt out of battery to rear ejecting point , about mid way it movement stops. See image:


By putting finger (or thumb) on bottom of bolt to lift up slightly the movement will continue to full rear position.


Fortunately I found my neighbor has an original 1876 that his great-great-grandpa purchased new and has been handed down to him. He was kind enough to loan me the rifle to remove side plates and lever to see how things work on a toggle link lever action. I'd never even seen one before this project rifle. I fiddled around for a couple days trying to figure out the jam problem - finally I measured the firing pin diameter of the original Winchester, then the Uberti. OK, the Uberti pin is .008" larger in diameter causing the jam. The slight downward movement of the bolt as the toggle links pull bolt rearwards cause the bolt to drop a tiny bit throwing the firing pin out of alignment with the hole in the action.

I made a new firing pin the same diameter as the Winchester pin (remember Winchester is a one piece firing pin while the Uberti is a 2 piece firing pin). That solved the problem. Almost every Uberti part I've purchased has needed some type of modification.

The aluminum finger lever seened in the photo is one I made by using the original as a pattern. I had a piece of 1/2" aluminum plate laying around so used that. Works good, except for the finger lever spring puts a good bit of pressure and would wear the aluminum pretty quick I'm sure so I left spring off for testing.

Here's another image of where the rifle is now.


I wish to say THANK YOU to all of ya'll for the help 'n guidance provided with this project.

[Texas by God]

Cheers to you, you are breathing new life into that skeleton. Looking good.

[Thumbcocker]

Great job!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[KenH]

OK, here's another quick update on the project rifle. Here are a couple of images of the rear sight I mounted on the rifle. The sight is from the Pedersoli 1874 Sharps I've got. I removed the rear sight and mounted a ladder tang sight.




There are a couple of methods used to lock magazine in place. Either a screw that extends thru the magazine end plug into a shallow hole in bottom of barrel, or a tab on the magazine end plug that rotates up to engage a slot in bottom of barrel.

In the image below the magazine extends out past the forearm 5-1/2". About 1-1/2" from the forearm tip there is a slot in the barrel where I suspect the original magazine ended. The slot looks like it would be where the magazine plug tab would rotate into to prevent the magazine tube from slipping forward during recoil. What do you think about me cutting this old original magazine tube to fit that slot? This magazine tube did NOT come with the rifle, I purchased it off ebay. Comments?

OR, should I leave magazine the length it is using the screw that would extend into a hole I'd have to drill in bottom of barrel?