Reloading Them Wrong For 30 Years,, I REALLY Need HELP,,

[SweetMk]

My question is,
Could the twist rate of my 243, and 7-08 ruin the accuracy of the guns?
I ask the question first, in case you want to skip to the end,,,

The only type rifle I have ever enjoyed owning is the Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special,
I bought the first one in 1974,, but, I went to college, needed money, a professor at college bought the gun,
That first one was a 22-250, and was a 350 yard tack driver,,

A decade later, I finally had enough money to replace it, but, I bought the #2 Varmint Special in 243 Winchester.
Two years later, I was at a gun show, the guy had a NIB Varmint Special in 7-08,, for $225,, it came home.

Then, probably around 1993, I walked into Greentops Sporting Goods Near Richmond VA,
They had all the guns that came from that years Shot Show, including the first ever made Model 700 Sendero.
The Sendero is VERY similar to a Varmint Special, except it has a synthetic stock, and black barrel, rather than blued.
They had all calibers, I bought the 300 Win Mag.
Later, I found out (by calling Remington with a question about the Sendero) that the stack of guns Greentops had were handmade for the Shot Show.

The Sendero has a HS Precision stock, and some big name barrel,, and, a Remington receiver,,

The Sendero shoots, literally, one hole groups at 100 yards.

Well, having bought that Sendero pushed me to try to get the 243, and 7-08 to shoot accurately.
I figured if I could make reloads for 300 Win Mag that were super accurate, I could get the other two to shoot better than 1" at 100 yards.
I failed,, actually, my reloads were so bad, that both the 243 and 7-08 shot factory ammo better than any reloads I could come up with.

The one thing I never considered was twist rate (we did not have much of an access to the internet back then.).
So, How should I start over trying to get these two guns to be accurate?

Do I measure the twist rate, then choose a bullet from some chart somewhere?
NOTE: I feel the twist rate must be the issue,, I tried EVERYTHING else, and I tried those things for years,,
I never considered bullet weight, I just bought whatever the LGS had that week,,
I am ready to have a go at the accuracy of these two guns ,,

Where should I start??

[falmike]

https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBud...ing+Twist+Rate

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

[kungfustyle]

If you have a slow twist rate and are shooting 100g jacketed in the 243 you will get horrible results. You'll need to go with a 50, 60 or 70 g bullet. You'll need a 1 in 7 or 8 twist to shoot 100g's. I had a handi rifle that was a 1 in 12 that I got rid of for that very reason. Your guns do say varmint so if that is what you want, go with the lighter bullets.

[Kylongrifle32]

What weight bullets have you been trying in both guns. The older factory varmint rifles were taylored toward the light bullets at high velocity crowds. Its like the problem Remington had with the .244 Rem they were designed to compete with the 243 win in the Varmint fields but then users wanted to go big game hunting with the same rifle with heavier bullets but the slow twist would not stabilize them so they brought out the 6mm Rem. Same cartridge just changed the twist rate to accommodate heavy bullets and renamed it.

[SweetMk]

Thanks for the replies,, I am sure I purchased heavier bullets, as my life at that time included the wish to go deer hunting.
I looked, nothing like a 55 grain 6mm bullet, I have not found the 7mm bullets, yet,

I hope to get time to check out the twist rates on the guns,, soon.
it does seem to make sense that a gun labeled "Varmint Special" would have a twist rate for varmint hunting,,

Neither of these guns were "horrible",, both were groundhog accurate out to 200 yards,,
it sure would be nice to see the two guns shoot a little more like the Sendero, though,,,

[Kylongrifle32]

Try different styles of bullets in the same weight in the 243 also. I have had several different varmint rifles that shot flat based bullets better than boat tailed and vise versa.

[SweetMk]

Try different styles of bullets in the same weight in the 243 also. I have had several different varmint rifles that shot flat based bullets better than boat tailed and vise versa.

You are probably correct,,
I never considered the bullet,, weight, shape, twist rate,, ANY of those .
I exclusively tried different powders, different charge weights, and accurizing the brass..
Over the years that I worked with that .243, I bought all sorts of equipment, runout measuring,, etc,,
Loading the ammo on the Dillon 550 helped some, the rounds were very similar from round to round,,
I tried the Dillon because of the good results with "factory" ammo. That Dillon sure loaded the rounds in a hurry,,
There was no time for the reloading press to do anything wrong!!

[charlie b]

Besides twist rate some rifles just like shooting heavier or lighter bullets. My .223 loves heavier bullets even though the twist rate is marginal for them (1:9, 77gn SMKs). While my .308 likes lighter bullets (1:10, 155 hornady).

There is also a huge difference in bullet quality. I know it might be difficult these days to find the right bullets, but, I'd try some lighter bullets, but, match quality.

Look through this for some ideas.
https://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

[dverna]

I would not expect the Dillon 550 to make any better ammunition than a single stage press so your comment "Loading the ammo on the Dillon 550 helped some, the rounds were very similar from round to round" is confusing.

BTW, some guns just will not shoot but that is rare. I doubt you have a twist rate issue but that is easily resolved with a different bullet. First thing I would check is the barrel crown. Not expensive to have it redone.

[Warhawk]

Years ago I had a Savage 112 Series J. That’s a single shot bolt gun with an extra heavy barrel. Mine was a .243

I wasn’t savvy enough to know about twist rates back then, but I did know that this rifle shot lightweight bullets better than heavy ones. The lightest bullet available to me then was a 60 grain Sierra, and it shot lights out in the Savage. I was shooting in a weekly rifle league and won a few medals with it.

[dtknowles]

I have never had a Rem 700 but I think the action is round on the bottom and that makes it harder to get it properly bedded. Torque on the action screws can affect accuracy. Since they are varmint specials I would expect that the barrels are free floated so that should not be a problem. I don't have any experience with Remington barrels and the quality of their chambers but I doubt even "varmint specials" are of the same precision as a custom gun like your special Sendero. I have only had one gun that I can't handload ammo more accurate than factory ammo and that is my Ruger #3 it just really likes Hornady Varmint Express 35 gr. V-max. It you were shooting bullets that were too heavy for the twist you should have seen some indications of keyholing on the targets. One benefit of using traditional targets on that tan paper is the way it takes holes. An unstable bullet will make an oval hole instead of a round one. I you look closely you can even see it on the modern "shoot n' see" targets.

Tim

[gpidaho]

SweetMk: Some rifles are very selective in the bullets they will tolerate. I have two. One is a Savage heavy barrel 22-250 with the old style 1in14 twist, the other a Remington 700 223 with a 1in12. Both are very accurate when fed the pills they like but the window is very narrow. The slow twist is helpful when shooting cast bullets but this is not the design purpose of either of these rifles and neither rifle shoot their best with a jacketed bullet over 53gr. I would guess that bullet weight-design to be your problem. Gp

[Kraschenbirn]

My M700 .243 was purchased in 1972 or 73 and, within reason, has never been picky about bullet weight. For many, many years, my 'go-to' loads have been either 100 gr. SPs over a lightly compressed charge of IMR4350 or 70 gr. HPs with a near-max load of H414. Gun has taken quite a few fox and coyote since I first brought it home and, off the bench, still prints MOA (or, maybe, a little better) at 200 yds. with either load. Btw, this isn't a heavy-barreled 'varmit special'...action been glass-bedded and a Timney trigger installed but the barrel is the original sporter-weight 22" with 1-10 twist.

For your .243, I'd first check bedding (barrel not touching forearm, action screws properly torqued, etc.), then obtain an adequate supply of a mid-weight bullet - something in the 80-90 gr. bracket, and a medium-slow powder (4350, H414, 4064, etc) and begin load development from the ground up. For real 'tack-driver' accuracy, consistentcy is the name of the game...small changes in bullet design/weight can be really magnified downrange. (I've got an M700 .308 with a McGowan barrel that, off sandbags, prints one-hole groups at 100 yds using 168 gr. SMKs but, switch to Sierra 165 HPs with the same powder charge, and groups open up to around 1 1/2".)

Just my nickel's worth.

Bill

[1hole]

Oh boy, how I wish obtaining great accuracy could be reduced to certain bullets, powders, turn rates, etc.

[Texas by God]

The last time I shot a 7mm-08 was in 1980, so I'm no help there. But every .243 that I've ever owned or loaded for shot best with lighter bullets. Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and Savage. Nosler Ballistic Tips and Hornady V-Max work well as do the classic Sierras.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[SweetMk]

The last time I shot a 7mm-08 was in 1980, so I'm no help there. But every .243 that I've ever owned or loaded for shot best with lighter bullets. Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and Savage. Nosler Ballistic Tips and Hornady V-Max work well as do the classic Sierras.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

When we were young, my sister (and BIL) owned a BIG farm, and had LOTS of groundhogs,,
One guy was so thankful for permission to come groundhog hunting,, that he built my sisters son a rifle.
The gun was a pre-64 Winchester Model 70, in 243 Winchester, with a custom stainless heavy barrel, and a 6-18 Redfield scope.

Another appreciative groundhog hunter brought my nephew all the reloads he wanted,
that guy took the gun home, and worked up a load, just for the gun..

Well, we never even looked at what the reloads were composed of,, we just shot groundhogs,,

That gun was so accurate, that with little compensation, the gun could take groundhogs to 400 yards, or so,,
I guess I was just spoiled by that .243,, put a cartridge in the gun, aim,, and hit the groundhog,,

Well, now I got the time, I will try to learn what it will take to make this .243 accurate,,,

[wv109323]

I would advise buying a "match" grade bullet for best accuracy. Like Sierra Matchking or similar. The twist rate has to be tighter with heavy long bullets. Long bullets need to be twisted faster to stabilize them.
The prime example is the 5.56 Nato or .223 Rem. The 55 grains were ok in 1:10 or 1:9 twist but the 69 or 77 g. bullets need 1:7 or 1:8 twist. Sierra labels the heavier bullets needing faster twist on the outside of the box.
Lyman loading manuals usually point out the most accurate loads they tested. That should be a good starting point.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd determine the twist rate, get some appropriate weight Sierra Matchkings, and work them up.

I'm not a .243 guy, but I've had real good luck with them in .30cal.

Something else that might just be my imagination but it seemed to help a little:
I took the bolt for my Rem 700 apart, cleaned in there real good, and put a speed lock firing pin kit in it.

[Randy Bohannon]

No one mentioned all the free bore in Remington 700 rifle chambers ,every one of mine has at least .030” of free bore or leade as some call it. O..A.L’s in the books are useless for accuracy, 30-06, 7mm-08, 300 BO,308 . Depending on bullet profile O.A.L’s need to be determined for each bullet, get the bullet .003-.005” off the rifling and your gun will likely shoot very well unless there are other issues at hand.

[SweetMk]

No one mentioned all the free bore in Remington 700 rifle chambers ,every one of mine has at least .030” of free bore or leade as some call it.

I was taking a had gun gunsmithing class at the time, the gunsmith instructor had told me about that,,
My cartridge lengths were set exactly right,, IIRC, the nose of the bullet touched the rifling,,
or it was backed off a couple thousandths.

I have not started to work on it yet, I have an adjustable powder measure coming that will help.
The only adjustable powder measure I ever had was on the Dillon, that made small changes difficult.

The other powder measure I had was a Hornady, and it worked like a MEC 600 Jr shotgun shell reloader
it has a slide bar with bushings that can be changed, so, it is a little like using the Lee scoop set,, no fine setting.

I hope getting the right weight bullet will help.

The other thing I was hoping for, (a totally different subject) was that I could work up a plinking round for one of my 700's,
That round would be for my grandson that has shown a LOT of interest in learning to shoot.

I was on some "accurate shooting " forum, and a guy had some rifle for sale that was like a 1/2 length .243 WIN,,
That type thing might be my only option,, if that rifle had been within driving distance, I would have gone and looked at it,, and had it sent to my LGS,,

I would have bought a 300 Blackout bolt action for him,, but, ALL guns in that cartridge seem to be crazy priced right now,,