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Thread: Paper Patching 308 for the 303 Brit

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    "Still, these elen loaded rounds are expensive!"

    "Shucks, it doesn't look like a lot for the time it took!"

    And those right there are the main reasons I don't paper patch much! Cheap and lazy!

    Paper patching certainly has its place but not for plinking or teaching young 'uns to shoot... for me anyway. Unsized as cast tumble lubed boolits are fast, easy and cheap and good enough for volume shooting.

    Nice patching job by the way! I did manage to get my 100 gr. smoothies patched quite nicely as well but it was work. Had they shot well I might have decided it was worth it for varmint grenades but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with them... in fact I almost swore I wouldn't load anything but 316299's in future! Almost anyway until I got my Mihec 316410 HP mould which shoots very well for a pretty light boolit (130 grs. solid and 126 grs. IIRC for large HP)

    Another fine shooting boolit for me was the copy of the Ness Safety Bullet I made a mould for. I wanted the Mihec mould but was very skeptical of the deep HP boolits coming off the HP pin. So, I made a push out mould of "clone" design as best I could and knurled them. They came out at 150 grs. with massive HP extending almost to the base. I had no sticking on pin issues at all, surprisingly, so decided I didn't need the Mihec mould... much as I would have liked another Mihec mould. That design would be a good candidate for paper patching if cast to the right diameter of about 0.303". Something to think about since you make push out moulds too. It is a full wadcutter design though so limited range whether solid or HP. It was designed to tumble after a few hundred yards so not dangerous at long range. My version is not PP but easily could be.

    Okay, I digress again... each paragraph is getting longer and further from your 110 gr. paper patched boolit idea. On the plus side though is that these are moderate weight boolits that shoot well and don't have to be paper patched for a young 'un but should shoot well in your gun over filler (worth testing anyway).

    I could sent you some Mihec 316410's if you want to try those.

    Longbow

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Right now digressing from 110gr paper patched bullets is a welcome relief! They kinda were a fail.

    The first three shots were impressive and I thought, "great, just need to adjust the scope and I'm set to go". Well, later on I made the adjustment and decided to fire three more proofing shots. Total fail! Examining the primers after, I see quite a difference in flattening.

    The other day I tried a load using 4227 and filler after your suggestion and I rather liked it. Pressure was mild and velocity seemed not too bad. I used wheat bran as the filler. I'll just live with a louder muzzle report which by the way, with the TB loads was very quiet. All one heard was the sharp supersonic crack. If that load was accurate I would be over the moon. Really pleasant to shoot. So for next range session I shall load up some rounds with 4227 and wheat bran filler and see how that does.

    Thanks for the Mihec offer. What are the dimensions of that boolit? I would use my little carbine for cast. Its bore may be worn and the rifling rounded but it is smooth and I have quite a nice lube. I like the sound of a hollow nose wadcutter for this application. Should work well at modest velocities. The bore diameter is .307 in the middle. It originally had quite a tight throat and chamber. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can get some sort of useful measurement.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-15-2020 at 05:08 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Longbow, I have been thinking about your kind offer. I have a rifle that I would like to dedicate as a target rifle. It has a good bore - the barrel started out as new out the grease barrel. The rifle is now too heavy for me to drag around in the bush and besides, I have this handy two-groove for that. I have considered cast in it but lacking decent cast boolits for it, I had put that idea on hold. Those Mihecs might be just the ticket for it. It was a pretty accurate rifle, producing 1 1/4 MOA ten shot groups all day long shooting 150gr Hornady spire points. I have a record of a 1 MOA group shooting Speer or Sierra's although I don't recall actually shooting that group.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Ha. I'm just reading along, trying to learn. Have been on this one several times.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master

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    303Guy is your expert here!

    I used to paper patch for my .308 with pretty good results... and for my .44 Marlin but it is somewhat finnicky work and I decided I wouldn't be paper patching much if not necessary.

    I did try for my .303's but got poor results with my as cast .30 cal. smoothy that casts at 0.301"/0.302". That works fine in nominal .300" bore but didn't work for me in .303" bore. I decided to knurl the smoothy up a bit in diameter to about 0.304" then patched to groove diameter and shot... accuracy was much improved and actually pretty good. So, was it the knurling giving the patch better grip? The increased diameter? A bit of both?

    I also tried using a 100 gr. cast boolit paper patched for high velocity load but failed miserably which is why I am interested in 303Guy's results with lightweight bullets. He's better at paper patching and more experienced than I am. If he succeeds I'll try again.

    Yes, there is always something to learn and smart guys to learn from!

    Longbow

    PS: I didn't post here but 303Guy asked about boolit dimensions. My Mihec 316410's cast at 0.315"/0.315" from ACWW. I PM'd him that info but figured it belongs here too. These of course are not paper patched but the same mould is available in 0.311" as well so that could be paper patched for .303's if someone wanted.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I don't know so much about being an expert. Only when I come back having won a number of competitions!

    Getting usable accuracy from an otherwise scrap barrel makes it fun. The power level achievable is also greater than plain cast can deliver.

    But paper patching is time consuming and not what I would choose for regular target practice and I find myself at the stage of life where target practice is going to be the norm.

    I plan on dedicating one or two rifles for paper patching and one or two for cast shooting at the range. Paper patching for fun and cast for volume.

    I can say that with this patching of jacketeds projects, I have discovered a rather neat concept of quiet yet effective light loads for pleasurable shooting with the 303. Unfortunately, the tiny bullets are not that pleasurable to patch but if they had shot straight they would have been worth it for field shooting but not target shooting.

    I do actually have an accurate lightweight cast paper patch load for my short barreled pig gun. It's a subsonic load and the gun is suppressed but the power level is a bit lacking and I don't have access to my casting station right now to cast some up.

    I haven't given up on the paper patched jacketeds yet though, I've just given up on being able to take the young fella out for a hunt and plink with them.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I too have been reading this thread, I tried patching a few rounds of jacketed for the 303 so I dug out an old target. Sierra .308 180 spire point bullets were used. They were rolled between to files and patched using .0015 tracing paper and lubed with LLA, they ended up at .314. The rifle was a #4Mk2 that I bought unissued, it has the best I can tell a bore about .313 and has been fitted with a scope.

    The powder was RL15 and I used just a little over the starting charge. I only shot 5 rounds, the group was 2 inches at 100 yds. and close to my usual zero with 150 grain bullets. One group does not really tell you much and it was probably luck. It was one of those I wanted try and see if it worked. I also did quite a bit with cast PP in the Russian and a sporterized Springfield.

    I think that was over 10 years age and some of the last paper patching I did, not for lack of interest though.

    Dave

  8. #28
    Boolit Master



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    303Guy

    Since you have a suppressor already and you seem to be interested in keeping the noise down, have you considered going the opposite direction and using a big heavy boolit going slower(sub sonic)? Would it have the mass instead of speed to get the job done? What comes to mind is Lee’s 230 grain .309 boolit and you could patch it up to what you need. It should be a lot more economical casting your own and the much longer boolit will be easier to patch as well as doing away with the boolit jump problem.

    When I paper patched for .45cal I used an inexpensive paper cutter to cut strips and then just had to cut to length. The angles correspond so the last cut is the first cut of the next patch. It saved me a lot of time.
    Last edited by GregLaROCHE; 11-19-2020 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Typo

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I actually tested a heavy boolit with a lighter powder charge and it was very quiet at 111 dBA inside my workshop. I was actually testing for lube effectiveness and rifling skid. It turns out that a lot of the measured noise is supersonic crack.

    I went the route of paper patching a jacketed 30 cal bullet because in the past, this rifle did not perform with paper patched cast. I went with the lighter bullet for low recoil and low noise. The latter two worked out fine but just not the accuracy and ease of patching. And yes, a longer boolit is way easier to patch.

    But now I'm getting into this project and finding it quite fun and challenging. The rifle is real nice to shoot with those low power quiet loads.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check