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Thread: Gas check making dies!

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    My 31141 has a fat shank. The Hornady checks and gator checks both will push on but not seat. In other words they are a tight fit. I like that. The Lee 309-150-F has a smaller shank. I can provide samples of both if needed.
    Last edited by Bazoo; 10-31-2020 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #22
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    Got it. Quality is king and the dies should just make the check. This is what I was thinking but figured I should mention my friend's idea.

    So when we actually get the first gas check making die prototype made, I will ask folks to PM me info to send a sample batch of 50 gas checks to try.

    One question I do have is I am apparently sizing my boolits at .311 since that is the sizer die I have. This is for .30-06 and .308 and .300 Savage, not just one rifle at this point. I haven't had a chance to slug all the barrels etc. What size is the OD of the check? I will be seating with my Lyman 450 which I haven't really set up just yet. I figure while he is making the dies maybe I can get my casting setup going and set up the lubrisizer. Kind of a big "if" with how busy I've been lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by plus1hdcp View Post
    Another thing for your consideration is the measurement of the shank of your boolit versus the final sizing size you need. This is what will determine the size material needed. I can assure you the aluminum found in soda/beer cans will not serve your needs on a boolit with a gas check shank. They will be perfect for plain based boolits. You will also find that your mold might drop a .001 or .002 different than mine or others. A couple of different gauges of aluminum will allow you to punch out and try which one will properly crimp for your needs. I needed to go to a .014 thick piece to serve my needs on my 30-06 however the same punch with .010 thick aluminum is perfect for my 7.62x39. This is directly attributed to my casting abilities, molds and lead mix.
    Where do you get the different thicknesses of aluminum?

  3. #23
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    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    I paid around 100 a die with shipping. While a hundred is expensive to me. I think is reasonable for anything of quality and hand made.

    60 to 80 bucks including shipping would be a steal and I am not sure that would be sustainable in the long run.



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  4. #24
    Boolit Bub
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    Im very interested in a set. Please let me know

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brick85 View Post
    Got it.

    Quality is king and the dies should just make the check.

    Where do you get the different thicknesses of aluminum?
    If flashing from HD and Lowes are from different manufacturers, they will be different thicknesses,, IMHO,

    If you get flashing from 2018, and 2021, they will be different thicknesses

    We have a business in Roanoke that only sells siding to installers,,
    I would bet the flashing from them guys would be WAY different than the stuff from the "big box stores".

    An interesting source of material might be the guys that go around and make gutter "at the job site",
    They have a machine on a trailer that shapes a gutter from a big roll of sheet aluminum.
    That sheet aluminum might be more consistent than the thickness of flashing sold by a big box store.

    No one would want to have to change a gutter machine setup just because the thickness of the sheet changed,,
    I would think the gutter machine needs to be set to the thickness of the material to be rolled into a gutter shape?

  6. #26
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    Oh, yea,,
    if you get the sheet aluminum from the guys that roll the gutter shape with the machine on the trailer,,
    you could get interesting anodized colors, like bronze, or dark brown,, or,,,


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMk View Post
    If flashing from HD and Lowes are from different manufacturers, they will be different thicknesses,, IMHO,

    If you get flashing from 2018, and 2021, they will be different thicknesses

    We have a business in Roanoke that only sells siding to installers,,
    I would bet the flashing from them guys would be WAY different than the stuff from the "big box stores".

    An interesting source of material might be the guys that go around and make gutter "at the job site",
    They have a machine on a trailer that shapes a gutter from a big roll of sheet aluminum.
    That sheet aluminum might be more consistent than the thickness of flashing sold by a big box store.

    No one would want to have to change a gutter machine setup just because the thickness of the sheet changed,,
    I would think the gutter machine needs to be set to the thickness of the material to be rolled into a gutter shape?
    This is a good point. I can ask the suppliers around here who sell to those guys if I can measure the thickness of their flashing and hope they don't think I am making some innuendo!

    I do want to check at both HD and Lowes and see the thickness. Remember that they have a setup at the factory thatnthey wouldn't want to change, either. So maybe there will be some consistency.

  8. #28
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    Actually if you are looking at using gutter aluminum there is a better option with colors to choose from. It is call aluminum trim coil. You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot in a few colors or even more colors on Amazon. A roll 24 inches wide and 50 feet long is around $100 to $150 depending on where you get it and sometimes the color. Now here is the catch, you can also find this from anyone who installs vinyl siding. The drawback here is 1 roll would probably be more than most would ever need, but they are also sold in smaller rolls of 6 inch wide x 120 inch long for $39.95 on Amazon. It is Eagle brand 26 gauge or .018 thick. The 6 inch wide would be really easy to work with as you could just cut 6 inch strips to the width needed for the check maker and wouldn't have to fight with a large piece. That may be the size I would shoot for if making this happens, but someone would need to measure a gas check boolit to see if that size will work. I am just thinking outside the box here, If anyone knows what I am saying will not work feel free to speak up..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscottjr View Post
    Actually if you are looking at using gutter aluminum there is a better option with colors to choose from. It is call aluminum trim coil. You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot in a few colors or even more colors on Amazon. A roll 24 inches wide and 50 feet long is around $100 to $150 depending on where you get it and sometimes the color. Now here is the catch, you can also find this from anyone who installs vinyl siding. The drawback here is 1 roll would probably be more than most would ever need, but they are also sold in smaller rolls of 6 inch wide x 120 inch long for $39.95 on Amazon. It is Eagle brand 26 gauge or .018 thick. The 6 inch wide would be really easy to work with as you could just cut 6 inch strips to the width needed for the check maker and wouldn't have to fight with a large piece. That may be the size I would shoot for if making this happens, but someone would need to measure a gas check boolit to see if that size will work. I am just thinking outside the box here, If anyone knows what I am saying will not work feel free to speak up..
    This is stuff I have some experience with. The trim coil you speak of is generally coated in vinyl and there is no guarantee it is a consistent thickness, particularly between manufacturers. I would sooner recommend "mill finish" uncoated rolls of aluminum. But I think the pre-cut rectangles for "step flashing" would be easier to handle. Not everyone can easily cut rolls of aluminum into strips with a brake like me.

  10. #30
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    Brick85 you make a good point. I was thinking of my brake and other tools. lol.. I didn't think about the vinyl coating either, I think you are right, it would probably need to be mill finish to get a consistent thickness. Step flashing is probably a good idea as well but do they make step flashing in aluminum? The step flashing I have seen and used wasn't aluminum.

  11. #31
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    I have a Freechex III in 22 cal mounted in a Arbor Press.
    There was a bit of a learning curving to using it. Shortly after I bought it, I managed to bust bottom half of the die. The die maker said he would replace it, but I was told I needed to wait for the next batch of dies to come back from the Heat Treater.

    Now I don't know anything about machining Check makers, but I'm guessing they need to be heat treated. So the metal of choice is one that takes to being heat treated.

    BTW, my die setup was designed to use alum Lith-plate which is .008 with some sort of coating, I form them with coating to outside. The GC's made have worked well on several different manufacturers 22 cal Molds that I have.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscottjr View Post
    Brick85 you make a good point. I was thinking of my brake and other tools. lol.. I didn't think about the vinyl coating either, I think you are right, it would probably need to be mill finish to get a consistent thickness. Step flashing is probably a good idea as well but do they make step flashing in aluminum? The step flashing I have seen and used wasn't aluminum.
    I've definitely seen and bought rectangular aluminum step flashing in the past. I always figured it was the same stuff as the mill finish roll stock. However, the new stuff I saw online seems to be pre-bent, which is counterproductive for this purpose. I'm hoping to get a chance to look in the store and see what they are selling.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I have a Freechex III in 22 cal mounted in a Arbor Press.
    There was a bit of a learning curving to using it. Shortly after I bought it, I managed to bust bottom half of the die. The die maker said he would replace it, but I was told I needed to wait for the next batch of dies to come back from the Heat Treater.

    Now I don't know anything about machining Check makers, but I'm guessing they need to be heat treated. So the metal of choice is one that takes to being heat treated.

    BTW, my die setup was designed to use alum Lith-plate which is .008 with some sort of coating, I form them with coating to outside. The GC's made have worked well on several different manufacturers 22 cal Molds that I have.
    Where is lith-plate available? Do print shops still use that and get rid of it?

  13. #33
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    If print shops still use lith-plate and get rid of it then using that leave me out as far as using lith plate. lol. Print shops around here don't give anything away.

    Seriously though, I have no idea what lith plate is. I just seen monotype a few days ago for the first time, and that was because another user here traded me some for some things I was selling. I still haven't seen any linotype in person and don't even know how to distinguish monotype. lol.. Im getting there though.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    I would be interested in reasonably priced check making dies.
    sounds great idea to me, for me to make anything precision on a lathe has escaped me. but I may be able to help with lathe or mill cutting bits.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscottjr View Post
    If print shops still use lith-plate and get rid of it then using that leave me out as far as using lith plate. lol. Print shops around here don't give anything away.

    Seriously though, I have no idea what lith plate is. I just seen monotype a few days ago for the first time, and that was because another user here traded me some for some things I was selling. I still haven't seen any linotype in person and don't even know how to distinguish monotype. lol.. Im getting there though.
    I believe lith plate is used as a substrate to hold the image to be printed on a printing press. It is photographically imprinted on the lith plate and then developed and put into the press. From what I recall working at a print shop 20 years ago. Now they may save these plates or may toss them when done. This doesn't seem like an ideal material for gas checks to me unless there is a trick to getting lots of them.

  16. #36
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    I double over the pop can aluminum strips from soda cans and they come out a very nice checks for my .22 caliber work.

    That said, i would be in the market for a 30 caliber gas check die set.

    Bruce
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  17. #37
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    Do print shops still use that and get rid of it?
    I assume so.
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  18. #38
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    how about this equation from Floyd's pages for gas check thickness.

    X = (SD-ShD)/2 where SD is sizing diameter, ShD is shank diameter and X is the material gauge.
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  19. #39
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    As for priceing is better obviously, but the maker has to make a profit.
    I and others (a bunch I'd guess) pay ~$100 for the two pass Pat Marlins dies.
    I'm all in at ~$100 for a one pass die.
    Take my money, please !!!!!!!!!
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  20. #40
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    I'll give some input that might not be met with a favorable opinion by a lot of people from my own experience with making gas check tools .
    More of what I have to say will be opinion rather then fact so take it as you like .

    So my first opinion is you'll never be able to make gas check tools profitably with a manual machine at a price people will be willing to pay .
    If its just a short term idea to make some extra cash and you don't care about the time invested that's a whole lot different .
    Otherwise , its a CNC thing .

    So let's move on to actually making tools along with the materials you'll use for the checks themselves .
    Manufacturer's like hornaday make nice perfect consistent checks by buying certified stock that meets their specs , us consumer types don't really have that option , so we use stuff like soda cans and roof flashing .
    While soda cans are very consistent ( certified material ).
    Things like roof flashing aren't so we need to adjust how we make the tools .
    For the guy with a lathe making his own tool this isn't a big issue , he goes out and buys a roll of flashing that will more then likely be a lifetime supply and he makes his tools to suit his material .

    A person wanting to build a tool for profit doesn't have that option .
    He has to make a tool that will work with materials that will very in thickness and hardness .
    That's not as easy to do as it might seem , while its for sure not impossible it will require a sizable time investment to do the development work .
    ie .. Make check makers and buy different size stock till you figure out what will work .
    And then test to make sure the checks your tool makes actually work .
    Time invested here usually outweighs money invested by a large amount . unless you don't care about what your selling and don't care if 35% of your customers are unhappy .

    Ethics are another consideration , if your planning on designing your own tool from scratch no worries .
    But if your planning on profiting from someone else's idea a person should consider tracking down the person who had the idea and see what they think of you profiting from their work .

    As a person with machine tools and a moral compass I wouldn't take another persons idea and use it to make a profit without their permission
    No matter how many places I can find those plans for free .

    Lastly , just in case your skeptical when I say you can't make a check maker profitably on a manual lathe because you see some threads where a guy says he made his homemade tool in two hours ....
    Go out and make one yourself , see what you think , then make four more
    Identical tools and see how you feel .
    Its a whole lot easier to make one perfect tool then it is to make 5

    I've made a check maker or two ... Yet I still buy gas checks because I can't make checks that work as good as I can buy .
    The tools themselves arent to blame , its the crappy material that's available to use .

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check