Gas check making dies!

[Brick85]

In the past week or so, I have seen not 1 but 2 inquiries into buying gas check makers for .223 and .30 cal boolits.

It's something I myself have been looking into. I realized that a friend of mine all the way across the country has a small machining setup and could make these, and he has expressed some interest. I believe he will be using the design stickied in this forum.

So I'd both like to gauge interest in these to see if I can get some sales to make it worthwhile for him to build these, and also discuss design considerations like what material he should plan on using for the checks (thinking aluminum step flashing material).

I imagine he could also make some GC for plain base boolits from beer can material as well as standard gas checks.

Now, I don't know much about gas checks and he knows even less. And I know little about machining. He and I both know some about boolit casting and have some experience reloading.

This could take some time to get moving as we work out bugs in the design of prototypes.

What are people's thoughts?

[sukivel]

I think you should do it! If they are made well and the price is reasonable I think they will sell.


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[Gunslinger1911]

In for multiple sizes from pop can material

[Brick85]

In for multiple sizes from pop can material

What sizes would you be looking for?

I like the idea of pop can material. But my question is whether there is any practical difference between using this material vs the aluminum flashing for normal boolits designed for gas checking. Particularly if the boolit is designed for regular copper gas checks, would the pop can be too thin? I also wonder if it's possible to make dies with interchangeable pieces which allow the die to use either thickness material. Keep the outer part the same but use different punches for pop can and flashing? Is there even a purpose for that? This is where my lack of knowledge beyondnthe basics of gas checking come into play.

[Bazoo]

Well I'd be interested in a set, I don't know what I'd be interested in though. In 30 caliber, normally I use Hornady checks, and have acquired some sages gator checks to test. I have no desire to switch to an inferior check. Now if it was a case where I could use aluminum flashing and it was easily available at lowes then I'd be interested in switching to aluminum. But I want the check to bite my shanks.

Might also consider tapping into the market of swaging dies. The price is the issue for many. If I could get a set of swaging dies for 200 instead of 400-500 or even 1000, I'd be a buyer. I'm interested in making 22 caliber bullets as well as 30 caliber.

[ACC]

The catch here is price I think. I would like one but price is steep.

ACC

[Brick85]

Well I'd be interested in a set, I don't know what I'd be interested in though. In 30 caliber, normally I use Hornady checks, and have acquired some sages gator checks to test. I have no desire to switch to an inferior check. Now if it was a case where I could use aluminum flashing and it was easily available at lowes then I'd be interested in switching to aluminum. But I want the check to bite my shanks.

Might also consider tapping into the market of swaging dies. The price is the issue for many. If I could get a set of swaging dies for 200 instead of 400-500 or even 1000, I'd be a buyer. I'm interested in making 22 caliber bullets as well as 30 caliber.

So the flashing would be a superior check?

I had the same thought about swaging equipment. But one step at a time.

The catch here is price I think. I would like one but price is steep.

ACC

What is a reasonable price? I see there are some for sale for popular handgun calibers for something like $109, is that within the realm of reasonable? That does seem on the high side for me. But still it would pay for itself quickly.

[Bazoo]

In my mind flashing would be better than coke cans, but I've not used either so I can't really say. Using coke cans might "work". But I ain't looking to make ammo that simply works, rather I want to make high quality ammo but at a lesser cost than what I'm currently making it.

I'd give 100 for a GC die set, but I don't know of any that price. One issue I have is sourcing the material. I don't know what to ask for, and if you go into lowes and ask for the best flashing for gas checks, they won't have a clue.

[daengmei]

Lowe's website list aluminum flashing rolls with specifications....?

[Rcmaveric]

Shank size to bore size of your bullets determines your material thickness. You have to measure and do some math to see your wiggle room. I didnt make mine.

Dima made all of mine for me and would be who I would message if I decided to try my hand at making them. Pat made them commercially but have never done buisness or message him.

I know all the designs posted are tried and true. You just have to measure your bullets and send in the numbers.

Best way to do it is to send in your example bullets. That way the dies can be tested and polished as needed for fit.

On a side note you can have your 35 cal die made with different pins so it can make plane base checks and 35 cal checks. That was Dima smooth thinking.

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[sukivel]

I’ve used aluminum checks before and didn’t like them since they didn’t “bite” the bullet, but they are better than nothing and maybe we could get aluminum with the bite?!?

Like others, less expensive swaging die sets would be awesome.

As far as check sizes...

.22
.30
.35
.375
.45

All popular choices...


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[Gunslinger1911]

I think the thicker flashing is used for boolets with a GC base. The thinner pop can checks are for "plain base" boolets.
I have Pats plain base GC makers in 35, 40, 44, 45, 50. They work great !
But single pass check makers in 35 and 45 would be worth ~$100 ish

[ACC]

So the flashing would be a superior check?

I had the same thought about swaging equipment. But one step at a time.



What is a reasonable price? I see there are some for sale for popular handgun calibers for something like $109, is that within the realm of reasonable? That does seem on the high side for me. But still it would pay for itself quickly.

$109 would be high for me. $50 or $60 would be about right.

ACC

[roscottjr]

I think the thicker flashing is used for boolets with a GC base. The thinner pop can checks are for "plain base" boolets.
I have Pats plain base GC makers in 35, 40, 44, 45, 50. They work great !
But single pass check makers in 35 and 45 would be worth ~$100 ish

Correct on the difference between flashing and pop cans.

[roscottjr]

$109 would be high for me. $50 or $60 would be about right.

ACC

I too would be interested at around $50-$60. However, $100, while a little steep, could be considered reasonable depending on the quality and features so to speak. Also, if this is done like a group buy sort of thing then the final price will depend largely on the number of buyers.

[Doubletap]

Gas check dies in .25, .30, 35, and .44 would be of interest to me. I'd only be using them on gas check design bullets, so the thicker flashing would be of interest. Quality of the finished check would be of more interest than price. Cheap dies with poor performance aren't a bargain.

[Brick85]

So I'm going to look into flashing, see the thickness available at Home Depot. Talking to my friend about which design to use has generated more questions than answers in my mind. It seems like the most affordable and accurate design would be a design where you manually pull the gas check off the punch rather than one which pushes the completed checks through into a bottle.

Then he raised the question of why not have a die which seats the gas check on the boolitnat the same time? That question right there has my brain reeling since I honestly haven't even used my lubrisizer much. Would that be a benefit, especially for PC bullets? Or pretty much anything have to run through the sizer, and trying to srst the check with the GC maker would then introduce the complexity of a top punch?

The current plan is for my friend to get the materials locally, and make a .30 cal gas check die. He will then make some gas checks and send them to me to try out. Would a few others who are more experienced with gas checking also be willing to try some out to see whether adjustments to the design need to be made? What is a reasonable number sample, 50 gas checks? I don't even have a load developed for the GC boolit and it's a day long affair to get to the range to test things, so someone who is prepared to seat checks and test the boolits would really speed the project along.

[Bazoo]

I have a system worked up seating the gas checks with my Lyman 450 and don't want to change personally. The system I have worked up adds a minuscule amount of time. Seating the check on the die that makes it would add a handling operation. The way I do it now is, drop the check and bullet on top of the sizer die with my homemade gas check seater accessory installed, seat the check, jerk out the seater and then size and lube the bullet. Replace the seater tool. It adds very little time and no extra handling of the bullet. I got a rythm down.

I have a good load developed for 30-30 using the Lyman 31141 lubed with Hornady checks. I could offer direct comparison between the two. 50 would be sufficient. 10-15 would be enough though to test accuracy and leading.

I have no issues removing the check from the punch or whatever, but like stated, the quality of the checks made is worth a bit extra money or work over a fiddly cheap made product.

[roscottjr]

Bazoo pretty much said it all. I haven't yet used gas checks but I am aware of how they work. The manner in which he explained for adding the gas check is right on.

Also, I agree that quality is king. I think a gas checker maker that is capable of doing other things would pick up where others have left off but only if the quality is there also. In this case, maybe a gas check maker with optional accessories. That way one who hasn't used it before or questions the quality could try out just the gas check maker without spending too much. The available accessories could be things like maybe a cup to catch the gas checks, or any number of other things.

[plus1hdcp]

Another thing for your consideration is the measurement of the shank of your boolit versus the final sizing size you need. This is what will determine the size material needed. I can assure you the aluminum found in soda/beer cans will not serve your needs on a boolit with a gas check shank. They will be perfect for plain based boolits. You will also find that your mold might drop a .001 or .002 different than mine or others. A couple of different gauges of aluminum will allow you to punch out and try which one will properly crimp for your needs. I needed to go to a .014 thick piece to serve my needs on my 30-06 however the same punch with .010 thick aluminum is perfect for my 7.62x39. This is directly attributed to my casting abilities, molds and lead mix.