Gas check making dies!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I'd like to check boolits for the .357 and .44. Probably could get away with just tumble lubing then as opposed to powder coating them.

[roscottjr]

After reading all the comments it leads me to another question. I have noticed how there are more people getting into powder coating. Does powder coating do away with the need to gas check all boolits or do some still need to have a gas check?

[Brick85]

I'll give some input that might not be met with a favorable opinion by a lot of people from my own experience with making gas check tools .
More of what I have to say will be opinion rather then fact so take it as you like .

So my first opinion is you'll never be able to make gas check tools profitably with a manual machine at a price people will be willing to pay .
If its just a short term idea to make some extra cash and you don't care about the time invested that's a whole lot different .
Otherwise , its a CNC thing .

So let's move on to actually making tools along with the materials you'll use for the checks themselves .
Manufacturer's like hornaday make nice perfect consistent checks by buying certified stock that meets their specs , us consumer types don't really have that option , so we use stuff like soda cans and roof flashing .
While soda cans are very consistent ( certified material ).
Things like roof flashing aren't so we need to adjust how we make the tools .
For the guy with a lathe making his own tool this isn't a big issue , he goes out and buys a roll of flashing that will more then likely be a lifetime supply and he makes his tools to suit his material .

A person wanting to build a tool for profit doesn't have that option .
He has to make a tool that will work with materials that will very in thickness and hardness .
That's not as easy to do as it might seem , while its for sure not impossible it will require a sizable time investment to do the development work .
ie .. Make check makers and buy different size stock till you figure out what will work .
And then test to make sure the checks your tool makes actually work .
Time invested here usually outweighs money invested by a large amount . unless you don't care about what your selling and don't care if 35% of your customers are unhappy .

Ethics are another consideration , if your planning on designing your own tool from scratch no worries .
But if your planning on profiting from someone else's idea a person should consider tracking down the person who had the idea and see what they think of you profiting from their work .

As a person with machine tools and a moral compass I wouldn't take another persons idea and use it to make a profit without their permission
No matter how many places I can find those plans for free .

Lastly , just in case your skeptical when I say you can't make a check maker profitably on a manual lathe because you see some threads where a guy says he made his homemade tool in two hours ....
Go out and make one yourself , see what you think , then make four more
Identical tools and see how you feel .
Its a whole lot easier to make one perfect tool then it is to make 5

I've made a check maker or two ... Yet I still buy gas checks because I can't make checks that work as good as I can buy .
The tools themselves arent to blame , its the crappy material that's available to use .

Very good points. I am looking to ultimately get some PB GC makers for 9mm and .357 and .40 so once I get my friend able to make them, it would enable me to get nonstandard sizes. He is not looking to make this his career, just a side hustle.

After reading all the comments it leads me to another question. I have noticed how there are more people getting into powder coating. Does powder coating do away with the need to gas check all boolits or do some still need to have a gas check?

My understanding is that a GC will do things PC won't such as stop gas cutting. While PC will gain you some velocity and has other features, there are folks who both PC and GC.

[ACC]

Liability also plays a part in this. If you make a tool and you sell it and you have done everything you know how to do to make it safe but some hillbilly's gun blows up and it is because your tool made a gas check that caught in the barrel you better have a good lawyer.

My 2 cents worth.

ACC

[Shamus]

Lithographic plate comes in .008, .010 and .012. After years of using all kinds of litho, I buy the .008 "blanks" new which are considered uncoated for my plain base gas checks. Newspapers use the .008 plates with a coating on one side. They are messy used, but you can find them cheap sometimes. Offset print shops will use the .010 plates for heavy duty print jobs, might find some used ones locally. You will need to clean up used plates with paint thinner. The .010 thickness is good for .22's and .35's.

Most of the FreeChex III tools were made to use the amerimax roof valley flashing that is about .015 thick 3003-H14 bare aluminum. They still make it, but its hard to get them to ship the right thickness! Its best to find a local building supplier and measure the rolls in person. I have tried a large number of suppliers and you can't find small amounts of quality H14 easily. You just need to call around and see.

The .015 aluminum works great on .30's and its used in valley flashing sometimes. Keep in mind the valley flashing can vary in thickness, its not consistent like you get from a custom metal supplier.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Redneck1's post is spot on. I've made a couple check makers and always found out that I should have made this dimension .002 larger or that part .0005 smaller. The checks worked, but made me appreciate how affordable good Gator checks are.

[midnight]

Take your micrometer to Home Depot or Lowes & measure the rolls of flashing. I have been able to get flashing from .009 to .017 & make checks in different thicknesses. If shanks are a little too small, use a thicker check. Measure flashing in several places & you will find variation within one roll. The quality control is not the greatest nor is it nesessary for the intended purpose but the price is right.

Bob

[Brick85]

Take your micrometer to Home Depot or Lowes & measure the rolls of flashing. I have been able to get flashing from .009 to .017 & make checks in different thicknesses. If shanks are a little too small, use a thicker check. Measure flashing in several places & you will find variation within one roll. The quality control is not the greatest nor is it nesessary for the intended purpose but the price is right.

Bob

I did this and while I did find varying thicknesses, most of the stuff from Home Depot and 1 example from Lowes (the pre-bent aluminum step flashing) was .014. So I am figuring this would be the appropriate thickness. They had an 8"x10' roll which should yield something like 4000 .30 cal gas checks for $8. Bigger rolls were even more economical for the square footage. So I think it is totally feasible for anyone ordering a gas check maker to stock up a lifetime's supply.

[Gunslinger1911]

A while ago I posted a link to a version of a FreeChex 3.
$110
It is set up for "Valley Flashing" - good for boolits with a GC cut.
I think there would be quite a few people that would like a one pass set up for pop cans (plain base boolits)
I have 5 or 6 of Pat's PB makers, but would spend $ on a one pass for a couple of sizes.
Pat's are about $100 (but were double pass), FreeChex were considerably more - but not made anymore.
I would think $100-120 for a single pass set up for the buyers thickness would sell.
Plans are available for one pass makers (with dimensions and formulas for various calibers and thickness of sheet stock.
Son in law is a machinist, but his shop is swamped these days (yay for him, bad for me - haha)

[dverna]

As to the metal stock, there was a guy selling rolls of it for making GC’s.

I bought GC makers (FreeCheck and Pat Marlin) and the stock years ago for if/when the SHTF. Have not played with the stuff so cannot comment on its quality. IIRC prices were not too bad or I would not have made the purchase for something I had no immediate need for.

As to “feelers” to justify a venture, lots of people will show interest until they need to send $$$. Most guys who will spend money, like me, have already done so as these makers are not new.

I expect your market to be small unless you offer a tool that is far superior to what others have or are selling. So that is your first challenge. Then, can you manufacture it at a low enough cost to make a profit. I doubt you can sell even a perfect one pass GC maker for more than $150. Use that to run your numbers. Figure a market of 50 .30 cal units for your first year. Regrettably, that is likely your best case scenario and reality could be worse.

If I were you, I would get a prototype made. Then do a lot of testing. If it shows promise, I would partner with someone like Outpost75, Larry Gibson, or Tim Malcom. They are able to cast excellent bullets and are no BS guys who command a lot of respect on this forum. They will give you an honest assessment of your tool, and evaluation of how the checks from it compare to commercial GC’s. BTW, there are other good talented guys here but those three come to mind immediately. In any case, you need someone who knows what they are doing and others respect. It will triple your sales over going at this by yourself.

Lastly, reach out to Randy Buchanan. He designed and manufactured an excellent portable hand press that was very well received a couple of years ago....likely the best unit ever made. Price was reasonable too. He offered it on this site and I doubt he sold more than 100.

[35 Whelen]

The most readily available aluminum material for gas checks? "No Trespassing" signs. I've been using them for years in my home-made check maker and they work great.



Overall, that is for the last 10+ years, I get slightly better accuracy with checks from this material than with commercial copper checks. But alas my checkmaker, which was made of standard soft bolts, is about worn out so I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

35W

[Retumbo]

The most readily available aluminum material for gas checks? "No Trespassing" signs. I've been using them for years in my home-made check maker and they work great.



Overall, that is for the last 10+ years, I get slightly better accuracy with checks from this material than with commercial copper checks. But alas my checkmaker, which was made of standard soft bolts, is about worn out so I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

35W

I make my own checkmaker too

[Bazoo]

What thickness is the no trespassing signs? Bout how many checks you get from one?

[35 Whelen]

What thickness is the no trespassing signs? Bout how many checks you get from one?

The signs are .012" and I could get around 330 each .30 caliber checks from each sign.

35W

[Bazoo]

Preciate the info.

[fcvan]

I joined this site because a web search for check making dies took me here. I have several dies from PatMarlins for standard and plain based checks. We still trade emails every now and then.

I had Ace Hardware order Amerimax Flashing in several thicknesses which Arrived in a few days. I got some lithograph plate from a member here in a trade. Good stuff. Plain base checks from soda can can be varied in thickness because 12 ounce cans are not as thick as bigger energy drink cans. I saved up some from when my nephew would buy a rock star or a monster. Mountain Dew has a good green color for Zombie boolits.

I purchased a paper cutter from Harbor Freight which does quick work of cutting aluminum strips. I found that annealing the aluminum flashing strips made checks easier to punch out and the stayed on better. I cut 10 or so strips which get held by vise grips for a 15 or 20 second dunk into my lead pot. As far as thickness goes, different molds have different shanks sizes so thinner or thicker gets made up and stored in a sandwich baggie marked with the thickness and mold made for.

Baseball season was always time for check making and I would make a thousand of each. The plain base checks are pretty cool and work great on a couple of tapered molds for conical boolits for a percussion revolver. Loaded in a 20" barrel in 45 Colt carbine was impressive with just under 2000 fps with a 200 RN HP mold. Over kill really, standard 45 Colt loads from the carbine are plenty enough medicine for deer sized game. I probably have 2k checks made from each die I own. I think the only checks I still use are for a NOE mold in 30 caliber. When I started powder coating everything I stopped using checks and just 'shake and bake' plain based boolits. I get 2450 fps out of a .223 rifle with no checks, and that isn't bad.

[sukivel]

I joined this site because a web search for check making dies took me here. I have several dies from PatMarlins for standard and plain based checks. We still trade emails every now and then.

I had Ace Hardware order Amerimax Flashing in several thicknesses which Arrived in a few days. I got some lithograph plate from a member here in a trade. Good stuff. Plain base checks from soda can can be varied in thickness because 12 ounce cans are not as thick as bigger energy drink cans. I saved up some from when my nephew would buy a rock star or a monster. Mountain Dew has a good green color for Zombie boolits.

I purchased a paper cutter from Harbor Freight which does quick work of cutting aluminum strips. I found that annealing the aluminum flashing strips made checks easier to punch out and the stayed on better. I cut 10 or so strips which get held by vise grips for a 15 or 20 second dunk into my lead pot. As far as thickness goes, different molds have different shanks sizes so thinner or thicker gets made up and stored in a sandwich baggie marked with the thickness and mold made for.

Baseball season was always time for check making and I would make a thousand of each. The plain base checks are pretty cool and work great on a couple of tapered molds for conical boolits for a percussion revolver. Loaded in a 20" barrel in 45 Colt carbine was impressive with just under 2000 fps with a 200 RN HP mold. Over kill really, standard 45 Colt loads from the carbine are plenty enough medicine for deer sized game. I probably have 2k checks made from each die I own. I think the only checks I still use are for a NOE mold in 30 caliber. When I started powder coating everything I stopped using checks and just 'shake and bake' plain based boolits. I get 2450 fps out of a .223 rifle with no checks, and that isn't bad.

Which .223 pb bullet are you using with that load?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Schreck5]

You got my attention. .454" for .45 colt plain base, and .30 cal gc.

[Big Ben]

I would like to make my own, the the cost of the ones on the market have scared me off. A $60ish dollar model would be great. .22, .25, .30 and .35 would be nice.

[redneck1]

A couple comments I'd like to comment on

Dverna pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I'd expect a realistic price to be @ $150.00 from a makers view point.

Big Ben hit upon the buyers view point with price scaring him off and what he looks at as a fair price @ $60 or so .

One thing i wish was realistic about dverna 's comment was the expectation of being able to sale 100 of them @ $150. In a years time .
If I had a working design and 100 people willing to plunk down the money and willing to wait 4-6 months I could buy a CNC lathe and go into business and make a reasonable profit in the first year .

But reality is .. Big Ben .
Most guys , me included just aren't willing to plunk down that kind of money for a check maker .