Need advice - 223 with 65 gr plain base cast - Red Dot &/or Bulls Eye - reduced loads

[bedbugbilly]

I’m new to 223 Remington and need some advice on some loading data.

Rifle: Ruger All American Ranch Bolt Action
Barrel Length: 16.12”
Twist Rate: 1:8

This rifle has an AR style magazine, so, I am limited to a maximum cartridge overall length of 2.250”. I have several molds in different weights and have loaded up dummy rounds – 2.250 feeds the best as far as COAL.

I have loaded for 30-30, 8mm Mauser and .308 with cast using Red Dot, Bulls Eye and Unique for reduced loads with good results. I have a supply of H335 and 55 grain FMJ for the 223 to load full power cartridges but I am wanting to play with cast boolits and reduced loads for just general plinking, killing cans, etc. with the 223.

I have a NOE 225-65-FN B3 mold on the way as I wanted a heavier boolit to try (heavier than 55 grain Lee FN) to try. The NOE casts a flat nose, plain base tumble style lube design that is supposed to be 65 grains. (Right now, Al’s selection is limited as so many of his molds are listed as sold out). I chose to go with a plain base as I do not want to push them hard – I have other molds for gas checked boolits for 223 – even gas checks are getting hard to come by. I normally tumble lube in Alox/Paste Wax, so will try that – and I have a friend who has offered to powder coat some of them for me once I get them cast. I have a feeling that the PC process will be the next thing I will get in to as I have had good luck with samples of other bullets I’ve been given to try in other calibers. In looking at the specs for the NOE mold I ordered, the overall boolit length is .690. If my calculations are correct, if I seat the boolit to achieve a cartridge overall length of 2.250, the bottom of the plain base boolit should be at the base of the neck where the shoulder angle starts when seated and a light crimp applied.

So . . . with plain base cast boolit, I know I am looking at keeping them 1,200 fps or less. (I do have other gas checked weights to try that I have data for).

My problem is that I have looked at my 3rd and 4th Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and neither shows a 65 grain & data. I am limited to what I have as far as powder – Red Dot and Bulls Eye. (I would try Unique but can’t locate any due to shortages.). I have tried to come up with some loading data for a 65 grain cast boolit in the 223 utilizing Red Dot and/or Bulls Eye, but to no avail.

Has anyone on here played with a 65 grain cast boolit in their 223 using Red Dot or Bulls Eye that could provide a minimum and maximum grain weight for Red Dot and/or Bulls Eye that would work with the 65 grain plain base cast boolit in the 223 that will keep it 1,200 fps or under in order to prevent leading, etc.? I don’t have a chronograph and I have always heard the figure of 1,200 fps for an “non gaschecked, plain base boolit” – is that a reasonable velocity to shoot for?

Looking at the loading data in my LCBHBs for 55 grain cast and Red Dot, then adding an additional 10 grains in boolit weight, I’m estimating that 3.5 grains of RD or BE would be a good starting point, but I don’t like “guessing”. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Yooper003]

I am shooting 7 hrs.
I am shooting 7 gr. Of red dot in my mini 14 ,that is with 55 gr. cast.this is the most accurate load I have shot in this rifle. But, it is too weak to function the action. Worked up a load with 5744 to work action but it is not quite as accurate

[Larry Gibson]

If you start at 1.7 gr of either Bullseye (my preference) or Red Dot and work up from there until accuracy goes completely south you'll be starting sub sonic. With PB'd cast in mu 22 Hornet and 223 single shot and bolt guns I find best accuracy in the 1000 - 1100 fps range. That sits me fine as it makes for great plinking, informal target shooting and small game.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas!

Larry - Thanks for the advice. One of my concerns was how low to start without running the risk of a squib - which I will look out for anyway. I will follow your preference for the Bullseye. When I placed an order for powders back in the first part of May, the selection was getting short. I needed some BE as I use it in 38's, etc. and the only thing i could get was an 8 pound jug of it Red Dot I could only get a 1 lb. container of - I have an 8 lb jug of RD but it is back in Michigan.

Once the mold gets here, I'll cast a pile up and load up a number of test rounds starting at 1.7 grains of BE and load them up in .2 grain increments. I know we are probably shooting different guns, different barrel lengths, etc. but would you shred's with me what you approximate best load is as far as the amount BE? In regards to loading test rounds in ;2 grain increments, what is the approximate maximum of grains I should be loading the test rounds u- to?

Where I shoot with a friend out in the desert here, about the maximum distance we can do is around 230 yards. My eyes are not the best but I do have a decent Leopold Freedom scope on the rifle so that will certainly help. I'm not expecting single hole results by any mens - I just enjoy the fun of shooting at unknown distances and playing with elevation and windage to hit a gong or a can set out. Just curious as I have no idea and I'm sure you are a much more skilled shooter than I - with your 1,100 rate of speed and BE load - and your rifle of course - what would you estimate your maximum of distance is as far as doing plinking on a small gong or pop can would be?

Thanks again - greatly appreciate the help.

Jim

[Hick]

I see from your avatar that you are a Brother. Nice (greetings from Winnemucca 19). I've had great success in my 223 Bolt action with the NOE flat nosed bullet, plain base, tumble lubed, using 3.5 grains of HP-38 or W231. Both run about 1250 fps.

[bedbugbilly]

Brother Hick - Greetings from Cement City (MI) 435! Thanks for the info - greatly appreciated. I'm writing all of this down in my reloading notebook. One never knows what powder will be on the shelf! My best to you and yours and be well Brother.

[GhostHawk]

Biggest I've shot is 55 gr cast over 4.6 grains of Red Dot.

Aug 13 2015 loaded 30 .223 55 gr bator bullet, no gas checks, 4.6 grains Red Dot. Should be just below 1400 fps.

Have to get down to about 3 grains to get subsonic. I did some testing with one with pretty good results. Bator bullet, no gas check. Was not as accurate at 100 as the 4.6 gr load. But 10 rounds with squirrel eye for aim point would have resulted in 10 dead squirrels.

[GhostHawk]

8.0gr. of Red Dot and a 55gr. FMJ is a maximum pressure load. It should be good for about 2150 fps in a 18 inch barrel, while generating around 50,000 psi. Since the gas volume is so low I doubt it will work the action of an AR. Be careful with this powder, it works beautifully with cast bullets in the 25,000 to 30,000 psi range but becomes extremely dangerous if you start trying to push the speeds up.

Use Fast powder to go slow, use SLOW powder to go fast.

[JAMESGR]

Greetings Brothers from Mt. Zion #542 Lawrence County Alabama.

[Larry Gibson]

.......

Larry - Thanks for the advice. One of my concerns was how low to start without running the risk of a squib - which I will look out for anyway.........

Once the mold gets here, I'll cast a pile up and load up a number of test rounds starting at 1.7 grains of BE and load them up in .2 grain increments. I know we are probably shooting different guns, different barrel lengths, etc. but would you shred's with me what you approximate best load is as far as the amount BE? In regards to loading test rounds in ;2 grain increments, what is the approximate maximum of grains I should be loading the test rounds u- to?

Where I shoot with a friend out in the desert here, about the maximum distance we can do is around 230 yards. My eyes are not the best but I do have a decent Leopold Freedom scope on the rifle so that will certainly help. I'm not expecting single hole results by any mens - I just enjoy the fun of shooting at unknown distances and playing with elevation and windage to hit a gong or a can set out. Just curious as I have no idea and I'm sure you are a much more skilled shooter than I - with your 1,100 rate of speed and BE load - and your rifle of course - what would you estimate your maximum of distance is as far as doing plinking on a small gong or pop can would be?

Jim

I've shot a lot of 60 gr cast over the 1.7 gr load on an indoor range and never had one stick in the barrel. Lower than that and the possibility is there.

Cast them soft and even a stuck cast bullet is pretty easy to remove with a rod. Kind of like driving a slug through the bore to measure it. I shot the soft cast bullets as cast and just lubed them with a very light coat of LLA.

Over here, in Lake Havasu, there are places close by where i can shoot as far away as I want to. I've been known to really stretch the outer limit of range with even my plinking loads. Also the local range (Sarah Park) has a 300 yard range with the berm behind it at 310 +/- yards. I mostly use the 225462 at 1100 fps for a very accurate plinker and the 225 415 at 1050 fps for small game. I shoot them out of my suppressed Contender 10" Hornet and my 21" Contender 223 suppressed carbine. The TC carbine has a 3x9 Bushnell scope with a DOA reticle so I can use a lower dot and adjust the power to compensate for the large amount of bullet drop at that 310 yard range. Usually some clays, or pieces of, on the berm and it's amazing how close to them I hit or even hit them ....if the wind isn't blowing much.....lots of fun and certainly cheaper than a 22 LR these days......

If ya ever get over this way give me a shout......