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Thread: Deformed 45/70 Cases

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    Deformed 45/70 Cases

    Here are some pictures of cases I shot over a year ago. I just figured out how to post them with my iPad. As you can see thereís something wrong. All the wrinkles. Any ideas to the cause. Not too hot of a load Iím sure. I think I may have loaded them with BP. Itís been so long, that I donít remember for sure. I noticed maybe three like this, not all. I think the photos are from the one with the most pronounced deformities. Any ideas what caused it? The only thing I can think is the case OAL was too long, but the rings correspond to the lube grooves.


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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Not knowing for sure, I'd say it had something to do with seating the bullet. Question: Did you use the expander die before seating?
    Last edited by 725; 10-26-2020 at 04:02 PM. Reason: other half of brain kicked in

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Rung chamber

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    I use a NOE expander. I would have noticed the deformities if they were there before I shot them.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead pot View Post
    Rung chamber
    What do you mean rung chamber? Like wrong or rung out. The gun has shot hundreds since just fine.

  6. #6
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    did this happen when you were shooting or reloading? it looks like the case was jammed hard against something.

    I've made artwork like that while reloading never while shooting

    Do the wrinkles go in or out from the plane of the rest of the case?

    What gun did you shoot this out of? Lever or bolt action?

    Measure the case length and see if it is between 2.095 - 2.105

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Whenever I had something like that the seater die is screwed in too far.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    What do you mean rung chamber? Like wrong or rung out. The gun has shot hundreds since just fine.
    You never said if that case got deformed after you shot or before. If they came out the chamber when you shot then those rings look like you rung the chamber.
    If those rings showed up before shooting I would say the wad/s might have swelled sitting too long from the oil separating from the lube. You need to say if this before or after shooting the rounds. I have a tight PP chambered .40-65 that will het the rings like yours when I use a .06" polly wad in the=at tight chamber and it will not let me chamber the round.
    I rung a chamber once from a hang fire where the primer pushed the bullet ahead a little before the charge went off.
    I also ween muzzle loaders get a walnut from short seating a ball. I seen this happen to two rifles during a match.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    looks like the case was too long when it was crimped. I missed a couple when trimming and they looked like that.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    right now it's just a guessing game without knowing all the facts.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    This case was fired. I didn’t see the distortions before loading. I’ve fired several hundred after and never the same thing happen. I was using BP well compressed, wad and grease cookie. Everything fit tight. No airspace. Taper crimped. I was experimenting with OAL longer than specs to try and make a 500 grain boolit work. I didn’t pay much attention to case length because I didn’t resize and cases were only shot 3-4 times each. Boolits would slip in and I taper crimped to keep them secure. Sometimes the action was hard to close because of the OAL was too long. A couple of times when OAL was too great, I couldn’t close the action and had to regent the cartridge as too long. Once or twice the boolit got stuck and I pulled the case off of it, because it was only lightly taper crimped. They were shot from a lever gun, but always loaded one at a time.

    I’d be glad to answer more questions. Unfortunately, it was over a year ago. I’ll have another look at it and take some new measurements. I don’t know what else I can say about it. I was hoping someone would say they knew exactly what it was. For now it’s a mystery.

  12. #12
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    too long a case.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    This is what I usually see with cases to long. If they just pull slightly past the chamber end it will look like the the empty case was roll crimped. If they pull past the chamber end you will see the rifling on the case mouth or the case will separate and most generally stuck in the bore or go down range with the bullet.
    That single case was an attempt stretching a .45-90 case to a .44-75 Ballard case. In this case I applied to much tension on the bullet and it stretched it too much, but you can see the chamber end on the case.
    I have never seen a case like yours extracted from a chamber after being fired unless that chamber had a ring or several rings.
    There was a shooter at our range that just got a new Pedersoli Sharps and he came over from the 100 yard range to me at the 200 yard to show me his new rifle and shells he loaded for it. It was a .45-120/ .45-3-3/4". I asked how he loaded the shells and he said I just put 40 grains of 3031 with a 350 gr bullet to try the rifle out. I said that leaves a lot of room in that long case to spread out the powder and you might get flashover and blow the barrel apart and he said I have a wad holding it down.
    I stressed, don't shoot that round. Well his friend that came over with him said I load my .45-70 with filler or a wad holding a light load of powder down, again I said don't shoot that load.
    Well he went back to the 100 yard line and after a short time came back to me asking if he could use my cleaning rod. I asked what's the problem? He said I have a case stuck I cant get out.
    Greg I hope this is not your case.


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  14. #14
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    Measure the case length and see if it is between 2.095 - 2.105

    a lever gun might have the force to accordion a case that was too long. You said you had to use some force to get some cartridges to chamber.!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    trim the cases and ease off on the crimp.

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
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    Cool

    The OP stated this only happened one time. He taper crimps. It hasnít happened since. Unlikely it was over-crimped.

    To come out of the chamber like that is odd. Chamber pressure usually irons out something that severe if it was chambered in that condition. The fact that the actual case mouth appears to be normal in shape/size indicates that an overly long case or excessive crimp wouldnít likely have been the cause. Since it happened a year ago and the OP canít remember many details we may never know. If he still had the case we might have better luck with a guess.


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check