Rossi 92 reassembly issue (half cock issue)

[PerpetualStudent]

So I very carefully took a rossi 92 apart (https://youtu.be/rKAucKBnbes and http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ta...ield_strip.htm) were the resources I used.

Cleaned it. But now that I've got it re-assembled I find the the hammer wants to drop into half cock on the initial pull. Instead of the normal, smooth pull into full cock, then pull the trigger and ease the hammer into half cock. Now it is happy to stop in the half cock.The trigger also doesn't feel like it did before I cleaned it. The obvious thing to do is to take it apart again and re-assemble it again and hope that sorts it but I was hoping one of you more experienced guys could tell me what I likely screwed up. Throwing in the towel for tonight.

[PerpetualStudent]

I took it apart again. And I think the bolt and lever weren't quite correctly joined. It seemed to be going back together better and easier. I'm at the stage in reassembly after you put bolt pin in. And the bolt seemed to fine, ejected the brass I was using to guide it in but now the bolt is locked in the open position. I then backed up removed the lugs and then put them back and then the bolt closed. I removed and put the pin back in but now it's locked open again.

The locking lugs were black when took it apart. I cleaned them in hoppes part of me wonders now if that was a graphite like lubricant and without that it's just bad? Or maybe I bent something when I improperly assembled it. I'm planning on taking it to a local gunsmith tomorrow. I just don't know what I did wrong.

edit: after more fooling and research the culprit seems to be the pin that joins the lever and bolt. I didn't drive it far enough so there is a tiny amount of of the pin that wasn't flush. It was close enough to squeak by and open but sticks out too much to go back. I can see the problem but I can't find a way to fix it. I just can't push it flush. Hopefully a specialist tool will.

It seems I just have trouble finding the goldilocks amount of persuasion. Obviously I used too much force the first time re-assembled. And this time I didn't use enough.

[indian joe]

So I very carefully took a rossi 92 apart (https://youtu.be/rKAucKBnbes and http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ta...ield_strip.htm) were the resources I used.

Cleaned it. But now that I've got it re-assembled I find the the hammer wants to drop into half cock on the initial pull.
thats how an original 92 is sposed to work

Instead of the normal, smooth pull into full cock, then pull the trigger and ease the hammer into half cock. Now it is happy to stop in the half cock.The trigger also doesn't feel like it did before I cleaned it.
Does it have a coil mainspring ? (my old Rossi did) It easy with some of the coil spring guns to put the spring and strut in upside down
goes together but it wont work

The obvious thing to do is to take it apart again and re-assemble it again and hope that sorts it but I was hoping one of you more experienced guys could tell me what I likely screwed up. Throwing in the towel for tonight.

......

[indian joe]

I took it apart again. And I think the bolt and lever weren't quite correctly joined. It seemed to be going back together better and easier. I'm at the stage in reassembly after you put bolt pin in. And the bolt seemed to fine, ejected the brass I was using to guide it in but now the bolt is locked in the open position. I then backed up removed the lugs and then put them back and then the bolt closed. I removed and put the pin back in but now it's locked open again.
?? use a neat sized pin punch through the access hole in the right hand side to locate everything properly before you try to tap the lever pivot pin home
The pin should have a bevel on one end of it - the bevel end goes in first
dont force things - if you havent got things lined up correctly and you put the lever pin in back to front you can break the firing pin - the sharp end of the reversed lever pivot pin will(can) foul and catch on the stepped part of the firing pin and a good whack with a hammer at that point will snap the firing pin - the lever pin goes in, everything looks ok - the gun might work ok afterwards for days months or years - one day it will quit or you get an out of battery discharge and when you pull it down there will be a fracture through the firing pin right above the lever pivot pin - everybody wonders why they break there ?
so tap the lever pivot pin in gently until its fully home - if it binds a little on the right hand side of the frame - just a tiny tap back until it clears - then put the retaining screw in on the left side and its done.

I suppose it is possible that if the lever pivot pin is loose and sloppy fit that it could jiggle sideways and foul in the locking lug slots when you open the gun but I have worked on 92's for 50 years and never saw that EVER!
Check the fit and function of the mainspring that it is not fouling on the recessed part of the hammer and the hammer works its stroke properly - if you got that in aot that will be your problem


The locking lugs were black when took it apart. I cleaned them in hoppes part of me wonders now if that was a graphite like lubricant and without that it's just bad? Or maybe I bent something when I improperly assembled it. I'm planning on taking it to a local gunsmith tomorrow. I just don't know what I did wrong.

edit: after more fooling and research the culprit seems to be the pin that joins the lever and bolt. I didn't drive it far enough so there is a tiny amount of of the pin that wasn't flush. It was close enough to squeak by and open but sticks out too much to go back. I can see the problem but I can't find a way to fix it. I just can't push it flush. Hopefully a specialist tool will.

It seems I just have trouble finding the goldilocks amount of persuasion. Obviously I used too much force the first time re-assembled. And this time I didn't use enough.

.....

[Froogal]

At one time I was ready to fully disassemble my R92, but then decided to just give it a thorough cleaning. I removed the butt stock and then liberally sprayed brake cleaner into all of the moving parts. Lots of black, nasty looking stuff came running out. I sprayed until the nasty stuff was all gone and then let it dry out. Followed up with a liberal dosing of Ballistol. THAT solved the issues I was having and there was no need for disassembly.

[PerpetualStudent]

If I had just put the main spring in wrong and then gave myself a real problem....well that's about the size of my luck.

About the pin wiggling out, I guess I'm this generation's "better idiot" because I am darn sure that's where I am right now. I removed the locking lugs and I can just see the pin sticking out on the left (bumpy nonchamfered side of the pin) and see where it is catching. I fiddled with a few trying to pop it flush so the bolt can close but it won't.

My working theory is that the screw cap that keeps the pin in was too long (I thought it seemed more flush with the receiver on reassembly). So the screw cap eased the pin in for a quick open but since the pin was wrong it popped back out as soon as the pressure was gone. I'll see if I can get some pictures up tonight or tomorrow. I can see it, I just have no clue how to fix it. And stevegunz has a year backlog and my local gunsmith thinks it's out of his depth and suggested talking to Rossi. But I've heard horror stories of getting things fixed from rossi proper. I don't know. I wanted to try my hand hunting with that this year but that seems...utterly unlikely now.

[indian joe]

If I had just put the main spring in wrong and then gave myself a real problem....well that's about the size of my luck.

About the pin wiggling out, I guess I'm this generation's "better idiot" because I am darn sure that's where I am right now. I removed the locking lugs and I can just see the pin sticking out on the left (bumpy nonchamfered side of the pin) and see where it is catching. I fiddled with a few trying to pop it flush so the bolt can close but it won't.

My working theory is that the screw cap that keeps the pin in was too long (I thought it seemed more flush with the receiver on reassembly). So the screw cap eased the pin in for a quick open but since the pin was wrong it popped back out as soon as the pressure was gone. I'll see if I can get some pictures up tonight or tomorrow. I can see it, I just have no clue how to fix it. And stevegunz has a year backlog and my local gunsmith thinks it's out of his depth and suggested talking to Rossi. But I've heard horror stories of getting things fixed from rossi proper. I don't know. I wanted to try my hand hunting with that this year but that seems...utterly unlikely now.

pm sent .......................

[JoeJames]

I did the same thing, like an idjit, when I was replacing the trigger spring (from Steve's Gunz), when actually doing that did not require taking it all the way down. I fiddled with it again and again, and and again. That's when I learned about using a slave pin to hold everything together when re-assembling it. By then I think the screw cap was half buggered up when I tightened it all the way down; so I put a little Loctight Red on the screw and eased it down just enough for everything to work right, then called it good enough.

[PerpetualStudent]

So here's the picture. I mean on the bright side after fooling with it this long I have a much better idea of how it all comes together.





The space is so tight I don't know how to push that pin in. And I can see the pin hit the side where the receiver thickens. Maybe I ought to put some penetrating oil around the pin end I can see and try again after it's been there overnight.

[indian joe]

So here's the picture. I mean on the bright side after fooling with it this long I have a much better idea of how it all comes together.





The space is so tight I don't know how to push that pin in. And I can see the pin hit the side where the receiver thickens. Maybe I ought to put some penetrating oil around the pin end I can see and try again after it's been there overnight.

All I can suggest at this point is to make a wedge shape punch from a piece of brazing rod and tap that through to push the pin back so you can close the bolt - soon as you have it closed (one locking bolt in to hold it ) then tap the pin out the left side so you can get it apart - take the bolt and lever out of the gun - re assemble the bolt and lever (including ejector) outside the gun so we can figure out what the heck is wrong here.

Cant put this right until you can get the bolt closed and the lever pivot pin out !!

Sorry but your picture is not clear enough for me to see whats wrong - it looks like the lever is down in the action outside the bolt instead of in the slot in the centre but thats impossible so it must be an optical illusion.

[John Boy]

Sometimes it is not a good idea to be a kitchen table gunsmith... lesson learned the hard way

[JoeJames]

One other point the NRA Firearms Disassembly Guide for Rifles and Shotguns has one on the Winchester Model 1892 which works just fine for the Rossi R92.

[Froogal]

One other point the NRA Firearms Disassembly Guide for Rifles and Shotguns has one on the Winchester Model 1892 which works just fine for the Rossi R92.

Is this available on-line? Or is it available in printed form?

[JoeJames]

Is this available on-line? Or is it available in printed form?

I have the hardback here at my office. Title is The NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly; Rifles and Shotguns, Pistols and Revolvers - copyright 1980, and I have the two volume paperback set at home, one volume on Rifles and Shotguns, and one volume on Pistols and Revolvers. Just looked in my hardback and it does cover the Winchester Model 1892. I don't know if it is available online, but it is on Amazon:


Firearms Assembly: The NRA Guide to Rifles and Shotguns, Revised and Expanded Edition Paperback – June 1, 1993
by Joseph Boxley Roberts (Editor)
4.6 out of 5 stars 15 ratings
See all formats and editions

Paperback
$21.00
15 Used from $9.99 5 New from $44.00

[Froogal]

I have the hardback here at my office. Title is The NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly; Rifles and Shotguns, Pistols and Revolvers - copyright 1980, and I have the two volume paperback set at home, one volume on Rifles and Shotguns, and one volume on Pistols and Revolvers. Just looked in my hardback and it does cover the Winchester Model 1892. I don't know if it is available online, but it is on Amazon:


Firearms Assembly: The NRA Guide to Rifles and Shotguns, Revised and Expanded Edition Paperback – June 1, 1993
by Joseph Boxley Roberts (Editor)
4.6 out of 5 stars 15 ratings
See all formats and editions

Paperback
$21.00
15 Used from $9.99 5 New from $44.00

Thank you!! I will look for it on Amazon.

[indian joe]

Sometimes it is not a good idea to be a kitchen table gunsmith... lesson learned the hard way

yer right but this aint perticularly helpful at this point..........................

[JoeJames]

yer right but this aint perticularly helpful at this point..........................

No, but I reckon he ain't the only one that has kind of painted himself in a corner. I got in about the same situation with a 32 S&W HE, and had to get back to the books and figure it out. Sometimes you just have to hit the books until you understand how it all works and fits together.

[PerpetualStudent]

"The burned hand teaches best" ~ Gandalf

I did manage to fix it. It's all back together and seems to be functioning.

What I wound up doing to get the bolt forward was squeezing slowly but strongly the tang and the lever. That slow steady pressure got the bolt forward. Once there, I drove the pin out, removed the bolt. And did the assembly again from that point. The pin didn't want to go in but playing with some side to side motion of the lever it fell most of the way. I drove it all the way in this time. Checked function. And then kept going. It's all together again. Dry fire seems fine.

I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I'm much more familiar with how the internals of the rifle work now.Thank you all.

[Froogal]

"The burned hand teaches best" ~ Gandalf

I did manage to fix it. It's all back together and seems to be functioning.

What I wound up doing to get the bolt forward was squeezing slowly but strongly the tang and the lever. That slow steady pressure got the bolt forward. Once there, I drove the pin out, removed the bolt. And did the assembly again from that point. The pin didn't want to go in but playing with some side to side motion of the lever it fell most of the way. I drove it all the way in this time. Checked function. And then kept going. It's all together again. Dry fire seems fine.

I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I'm much more familiar with how the internals of the rifle work now.Thank you all.

You tackled it yourself, and made some mistakes, but you learned, and you will be willing to try it again if needed. Pretty much the same way I do things.

[PerpetualStudent]

I've noticed in dry fire that the trigger is fine if worked immediately but if left cocked for several seconds and then pulled there's a tendency for the hammer to hang. Sometimes I can see a tiny movement, and then it hangs, and then drops.

Is this normal for the 92?