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Thread: H-110 and W296

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy ACC's Avatar
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    H-110 and W296

    Are these two powders the same thing. Is reloading data exchangeable for either powder? Was in my local range house today and they were telling this one guy that you can use load data for H-110 with W296. I don't think this is right.

    ACC

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Everything that I have ever heard is that they are the same. Most load data confirms this. The same goes for hp-38 and w231
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I have heard the same thing, that H110 and W296 are the same. I looked them up in the National Crime powder database and they do indeed appear to be very similar chemically. I have used them interchangeably in my 357 magnum loads and cannot see a difference. I don't know for absolute certain, but as the saying goes: if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....
    Hick: Iron sights!

  4. #4
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    They both are made in the same plant, they are the exact same powder, they are badged and packaged differently. Hodgdon markets H110, Winchester markets W296. These are for retail, but if you buy in bulk, they have the same number. Any variations between the two are attributable to lot to lot variations which are normal.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 10-23-2020 at 10:18 PM.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACC View Post
    Are these two powders the same thing. ................
    /\ YES /\
    No more discussion needed

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can only imagine you getting into trouble if you use very old data. Even then, you might not. It seems to me that, in the late 80's to early 90's the data for the propellants was different. I don't remember, because I never used either until they "became" the same, and only used H110 when reloading .30 Carbine.
    It COULD be that they've ALWAYS been the same propellant with different labels, but for some reason I want to say they were different, way back when. It doubt you'll encounter any 30 or 40 year old W296 or H110 propellant, but ancient data has a way of surfacing, from time to time. Be watchful.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy nhyrum's Avatar
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    They are literally the exact same powder. I've heard it direct from the people that make both. I know, it made me nervous interchanging the two as well. But, they are the same.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy gnappi's Avatar
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    Kosh, I'm not wanting to start an issue, but old data is not unsafe in any way. But the fact is powder makers go to great lengths to assure as best they can that powders remain the same so old data should be just as viable as new.

    Quote from an old Alliant manual I have:

    "Every container of Alliant smokeless powder is backed by a century of manufacturing experience and the most exacting quality control procedures in the industry. We check and control chemical composition, the shape and size of powder grains, even the propellants' density and porosity. We send samples of every batch to our ballistics lab, testing among other things for burning speed. Then after blending the batches together for exactly the right ballistic characteristics, we use our advanced computerized equipment to test again.

    The result: A line of products known and respected for consistent quality and performance - not only in the lab, but on the firing line.

    One of the reasons you're a reloader after all, is so you'll know exactly what to expect every time you pull the trigger. With Alliant powders you will. Not only shell after shell, but also year after year. "

    Quote off

    I've yet to see a disclaimer in a load manual that claims that after a certain date their data is invalid. As a matter of fact, I've been using Alliant (and the others) data near or at max loads (working up obviously) since the 80's and have never experienced an issue. Can powder change year after year if stored poorly? Likely but powder makers also go on at length on how to correctly store powder (and in proper containers) over time to keep it from degrading.
    Regards,

    Gary

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I do not know about older powders.But if you look at the hogdon loading site H110/ 296 and HP38/231 it is all the same loads. And this has been rehashed here many times in the past.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy derek45's Avatar
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    they are the same, as is win231 / hp38

    if you call hogedon and talk to tech support they will confirm it
    .


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  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy nhyrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnappi View Post

    I've yet to see a disclaimer in a load manual that claims that after a certain date their data is invalid. As a matter of fact, I've been using Alliant (and the others) data near or at max loads (working up obviously) since the 80's and have never experienced an issue. Can powder change year after year if stored poorly? Likely but powder makers also go on at length on how to correctly store powder (and in proper containers) over time to keep it from degrading.
    I've heard of one powder that manuals stated the old was not the same as the new. I believe it was a shotgun powder in a shotgun manual. But I do not remember what powder it was. But for 99.9% of everything, you are correct.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Static line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    I can only imagine you getting into trouble if you use very old data. Even then, you might not. It seems to me that, in the late 80's to early 90's the data for the propellants was different. I don't remember, because I never used either until they "became" the same, and only used H110 when reloading .30 Carbine.
    It COULD be that they've ALWAYS been the same propellant with different labels, but for some reason I want to say they were different, way back when. It doubt you'll encounter any 30 or 40 year old W296 or H110 propellant, but ancient data has a way of surfacing, from time to time. Be watchful.
    Yes, like in my powder cabinet. I still have those two powders in cardboard containers and still use them.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    This has been discussed numerous times and a SEARCH would have given the OP the answer. Work smart, not hard.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master 44magLeo's Avatar
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    I have older as well as newer manuals. If H110 and W296 are the same, why don't the manuals match?
    Using the same cases, same primers and bullets just the two powders you get different max charges, pressures and velocities.
    This leads me to believe they are different.
    Leo

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy nhyrum's Avatar
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    H-110 and W296

    Quote Originally Posted by 44magLeo View Post
    I have older as well as newer manuals. If H110 and W296 are the same, why don't the manuals match?
    Using the same cases, same primers and bullets just the two powders you get different max charges, pressures and velocities.
    This leads me to believe they are different.
    Leo
    I do not know why data for the two are different. If you call Hodgdon and ask, they will tell you they’re the same.


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    Last edited by nhyrum; 10-26-2020 at 03:21 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    The RCBS Bullet Manual shows different loads for H110 and 296, it also shows different loads for HP-38 and 231.

    The book was published in 1993 if my memory is correct.
    NRA Benefactor.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I called Hodgdon and asked them the specific gravity of Varget and they would not tell me. The guy on the phone did verify that H110 and 296 are the same propellant.
    EDG

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Back many years ago I worked with a commercial large scale reloader. We would get in drums of H110 or 296 and inside the drums were the spec papers, sometimes the drum would say H110 on the outside and the papers indicated 296. They were interchangeable, 1 and the same.

    The powder I wish had taken off was one we would get in in huge drums, it was called H110 Data, I think it was the short lived H108 consumer powder. It looked, felt and smelled just like H110 but was 12% faster. It was the best powder I have ever worked with in 357's and 41 magnums. I still have about 30 pounds left from those days. Sometimes took pay in powder or bullets, and was always happy to. I find that this powder results in less muzzle flash and a bit better velocity with a tad less powder used. It also seems to burn more completely in a revolver.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44magLeo View Post
    I have older as well as newer manuals. If H110 and W296 are the same, why don't the manuals match?
    Since Hodgdon started selling Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester powders under the same marketing umbrella, Hodgdon has shown H110 and W296 as two separate powders with the same load data. The same for H414 and W760. This goes back to at least 2007 with the annual magazine format reloading manuals.

    You can see this for yourself on Hodgdon's online reloading data.

    I also have older manuals and agree that they are never the exact same. Maybe they were close enough that after coming under common control someone just decided to split the differences and use the same powders for both. Or maybe the differences were variations in lots to begin with.

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    I have bought quantities of powder for group buys in the past for shooting club members and required an import certificate to do so. Included with the paperwork was an extensive list of powders that were approved for importation. Something interesting was for example a listing for Win231. On either side of the listing for W231 was a number of sub-listings such as A-B-C W231 or W231-1 ,W231-2, etc. I asked the powder manufacturers what this referred to and was told that "straight W231 was "cannister" grade of a known exact burn rate and characteristics for reloaders which conformed to published reloading l data. The numbers to either side were powders that after finishing the manufacturing process came in with a bit faster or slower burning characteristics.
    These powders would be sold to ammo manufacturers who had the ability to blend the powders together to achieve the desired results in a factory loaded cartridge.
    This is probably a good reason not to decide that a powder that you examined from a "pulled" factory round must be XXX because it may not have the same burn rate as you think it looks like.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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