What’s better a 230 gn 45calibre 35 or 30 cal bullet

[barrabruce]

So what are your thoughts on a 230gn say 45,35,30 caliber bullet at 1000fps for whopping pigs?
Be out of a carbine single shot.

My thoughts are the 45 acp would leave a big hole at about 4moa accuracy
Range 100yrds?

The 357 mag would be more accurate than a 45 and be bigger than a 30 cal hole and be 2-3 moa 125 yrd range?

And a 30 cal would with 1-1.5 moa 150-200 yards tops?
Best wind deflection and accuracy but smallest hole/ damage

I know you can sneak up and put a 22lr in their ear also but.....

Any thoughts / experiences

[popper]

Depends on eating or eradication. And the shot. Probably 50 yds. You need bone break and penetrating capability. Hard cast 40sw will do it if you can hit. I changed to BO pistol 150 hard jacketed @ 2k fps. I want 2 holes.

[dverna]

I have a question about limiting the velocity to 1000 FPS. That gives the edge to larger calibers.

If I needed to kill a lot of pigs, a single shot would be my last option. An AR in . 300 BO, or .350 Legen eould seem to be a good platform. Looking at what I have in my little armory, I would likely use the .357 carbine for eradication.

I would have no reason to limit velocity.

[405grain]

Because 1000 fps is specified it looks like the choice might be for which round would be best when suppressed. The 45 acp would be the quietest, but maybe not the best choice. You can certainly kill a pig with a 45 acp, but the speed and power fall off fast with range. I'd be reluctant to take a shot beyond 50 to 80 yards because of the possibility of wounding & not making a clean kill. A 357 magnum at 1000 fps is the same as a 38 special +P. I've hunted with friends that have used full bore 357 mag. on pigs and I would judge it as being a little on the light side (I did much better with a 44 mag.) Yes, people can get pigs with a 357 mag, and many have gotten a bang/flop with them, but I bet an equal number have had to trail a wounded pig into the brush as well. For deep penetration through thick shoulder skin, and to break bone and reach the vital organs, long for caliber heavy bullets win hands down. A 200 grain 30 caliber will retain velocity and power over a longer range. They have better accuracy potential than pistol caliber bullets. The 30 caliber would be my first choice among the three for pig hunting.

[barrabruce]

Sorry .....Well to expand a bit.
It would solely be for destruction/ pest control.

The 1000fps Is just an figure but one that would be quieter on the old ear drums and not have to worry about deafening cracks.
I’m in the ideas of a light stalking /walking Piece.
A martini cadet in a 30 something short rimmed blkout Or 30-20 to use my 30 cal moulds is in the wind
Would suffice for small tasty things.
I have a 30-30
But thinking of another cadet in maybe the bigger caliber if it is worth it.
Just thinking.
Can reload a second shot quiet quick .3 seconds for a well sighted shot....but if I need a hand-full or mouth full.

Thank the lord our government looks after us and doesn’t allow us to use semi auto rifles(with out hoops) or those screw on muzzle devices that save your hearing, as we would all surely turn into crazed Hollywood assassins and murderers and go around Topping off everyone.







I’m surprised that the 45 acp would not go through a pig and bust up it shoulders on the way through.

I’m not sure of the accuracy potential for the pistol rounds but it is what I gather to be about average from what I have read.

[USSR]

I’m surprised that the 45 acp would not go through a pig and bust up it shoulders on the way through.

Something you don't seem to be taking into consideration is SD and bullet construction. When you want a lot of bone-busting penetration as with pigs, then you want a high SD number bullet, as in a heavy for caliber bullet. With the 230gr bullet, you get this much more with the .30 and .35 caliber bullet as opposed to the .45 caliber bullet. While I am a big .45 caliber fan, I would use a much heavier bullet if I were hunting pigs with a .45.

Don

[barrabruce]

I know the martini cadet can take a 45 acp but the barrel shank would be real thin and I wouldn’t want to warm it up anymore.

Hmmmm

Thanks everyone

[1006]

If you have a rifle that will shoot it, I would choose the 230grain 30 caliber at 1000FPS. Provided you are committed to the weight and speed of 230/1000.

[reddog81]

I’m not sure of the accuracy potential for the pistol rounds but it is what I gather to be about average from what I have read.

The accuracy potential is there. The question is how well do you shoot? Shooting 100 yards accurately with a pistol takes LOTS of practice. Shooting 25 yards with a pistol is a stretch for most people

[popper]

Well known person on another board used sub 230gr BO on a good sized hog, @100 yrds, 15 rnds and hog ran off. All were hits. I ran a test on 150# hog carcass (few minuted dead - taken with 9mm and one to the head). 185gr RD ~1800 fps from 30/30 @ 5-6 ft. One in the gut passed through, one in the shoulder didn't. Wild boar have a thick 'shield' around the shoulders that you have to punch through to get to vitals. Head and neck shots are better for cast. Need a good weight and pointy bullet to cut through the shield. Behind front leg is a good shot to get heart and lungs. Hogs are interesting as 2-3 wks after going wild, they change drastically. They can run fast and who knows what direction they will go, sometimes right toward you. What ever cartridge you choose, IMHO, take some good jacked hunting bullets with you.
The shield some think is for fighting but IMHO it's due to them living in rugged underbrush and need protection from thorns and low branches.

[Harter66]

A 45 Colts 250 at distances from powder burn to 50 yd enjoyed 18+ inches of penetration with exit while I avoided shooting into the shoulders a shot at a runner at 17 paces , passed through an inch combined shield and 19" . 454424 .

A 230 is going to be a lot in a 357, the bulk of the designs are tooled more towards 358 and 35 Whelen . 230s are getting well into the free BC gains if you can play some sizing games or have a design like the 358-200/35-200 etc with the long nose an short bands you might do ok but to get 1000 fps your going to be into 5744 , 4227 or 2023(? H322 US) slow for cartridge powders . H322 worked very well in 45 Colts with a 350 so a 230 in 357 is a fair comparison .

230 in a 30 cal is wind cheating fool and at 1000 fps it's going to keep over 900 fps at 300 yd . The catch is enough twist . You have to have 1-9 to be sure . At 1600 it'll take 1000ftlb past 150 yd with the NOE version . Via my Strelok ballistics app . It has over a .500 BC retweeked for 1000 fps it starts at 500# and loses only 50# to 200 yd . Short of a WC nose profile the numbers will hold close . 32-20 or 327 mag . You're in the same boat as the 357/230 and you need a soft bullet that will swell a little at 900 fps and 460 ftlb .

The 30 cal will hold the most speed and energy for the longest . It also has the best chance of burning everything in the barrel with almost no flash .
The 45 will be the easiest to get to 1000 fps with a 230 , it's only a +P in a 6" barrel in ACP , a little warm in a Schofield and a normal load in a Colts .

I suppose you've already reached all of these conclusions already , so probably no help at all .

[barrabruce]

No it’s helpful.
I’ve never played with pistol rounds and always thought a few grains of bullseye is about all one needed.
Do they need to be sized and crimped all the time?
They are only for one chamber and can be seated out to touch the lands in a carbine.

I will have to look into the 357 mag case through shortened 300 blk dies too see how far I. Could push a heavy 30 cal.

It looks as thou I will be selecting my shots and not be able anchor and break down a big adenalene charged pig on the spot then.


Thnx

[Harter66]

Is there a reason for the pistol cartridge need ?
Something less exotic , a 30 Herett or a 30-30 reformed in a 7.62×39 sizer ?
A 200 gr cast with a case full 4350 will get 16-1800 fps at 40-42,000 psi . Probably a 230 would be close to that as well.
The 35 Herett would get you there too .

I don't remember what the 30-357 is called but there is one .

[popper]

I was thinking of a RB with shorter 30/30 case. Smith cost is prohibitive for me.

[barrabruce]

I don't remember what the 30-357 is called but there is one .

30 Paxton is one.
The 30 badger is a 38 special case.
There has been quite a few.

I think a light cadet rifle would kick the snot out of you in 30-30.
And anything loaded to about the same.

The pistol rounds are for the rim mostly.

The 30 short rimmed blkout only needs the dies ground back a bit and the reamer held back and a rim bored for it.
Easy peezy .

The 30-30 rimmed x 39 may have have good value.
If making the cases is not that hard.
And can use a std reamer and dies.

[DougGuy]

The 220gr 300 BO subsonic load has all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of what the OP wants. It has 100yd accuracy, the 45 ACP does not. It penetrates much farther than the 230gr 45 ACP boolit even though they both travel roughly 1000fps. It comes in a lightweight easy to handle and easy to shoot very accurately pistol length AR platform. 30rd mags are the norm as opposed to 7rds or 8rds. Ammo is readily available (when you can find ammo at all). It is (or was) VERY affordable. Probably could go on and on but just use the AR in 300 BO and forget about all the off the wall stuff.

[popper]

IIRC the BO is available as SS. I played with slow 170 gr PB in BO - 10" pistol. 8.5gr 2400 (or cfe pistol) gave 850 fps and low noise with muffs on. 10.5gr gave 1400 fps and more noise but not too bad. Carbine length should be a tad quieter. 5gr gives a pop but is slow. I'd like to chop off the 30/30 neck and make a new one of same length with less case capacity for really heavy subs. IIRC most are shooting BO 220s with ~10 gr 1680. Effectively a straight wall case.

[Rodfac]

Something you don't seem to be taking into consideration is SD and bullet construction. When you want a lot of bone-busting penetration as with pigs, then you want a high SD number bullet, as in a heavy for caliber bullet. With the 230gr bullet, you get this much more with the .30 and .35 caliber bullet as opposed to the .45 caliber bullet. While I am a big .45 caliber fan, I would use a much heavier bullet if I were hunting pigs with a .45.

Excellent advice from USSR....Rod

[barrabruce]

The likely candidates lined up for the 4 1/2 lb rifle.

L - R 30-30,30-30 rooskie-ish, 30-20 , 300blk, 30-357, 38 spl.
Something like that.
The 32-20 through a 310 cadet comes out nice and straight.
The 30-357 mag would be a stronger case thou.
The 30-30 rooskie/ 1 1/2" x39 thing could be the most versatile thou.

Choices

[McFred]

I too have been dinkin' around with .35 cal subsonics recently. I always hear how tough pigs are, but I had to dig these "wadcutters" out of the berm after they passed through 3' of water from 25 yards. The projectile is a 15bhn MP-36-200 with a hollow point pin fired at ~1100fps. Noses were shed and remaining wadcutter is ~140gr. Pigs may be tough, but they're not that tough. Ballistic coefficient's pretty close to a G1 .250. Not great, but better than you'd find with a .45 caliber 230.



30cal might have a better BC, but if it's not a soft alloy or hollow-pointed it'll either pencil through or yaw unpredictably on impact.