Cast bullets in nitrited barrels

[Steven66]

Are there any caveats to cast bullet loads in nitrided ( “Liquid Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing Non-Cyanide Bath", usually abbreviated as "FNC") barrels? I'm wondering about pressure changes mainly. Thanks in advance!

[cstrickland]

Are there any caveats to cast bullet loads in nitrided ( “Liquid Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing Non-Cyanide Bath", usually abbreviated as "FNC") barrels? I'm wondering about pressure changes mainly. Thanks in advance!

M&P barrels are FNC if I am not mistaken, and I have used lead in them since day one of owning them and never had any issues. What firearm are you shooting and what its the concern with pressure if I may ask ?

[Steven66]

I have a Ruger 77/357 and always want to stay within the accepted pressure specifications. When I was starting out with it, I bought some Cast Performance LBT style bullets in 180 and 187 grains for it that I won't use because I haven't been able to find pressure level specs for loading them. I wound up getting a NOE mold in 158 grains and using bullets cast from it. I just wondered whether (because the barrel steel is harder now) there would be any appreciable change in pressures.

[mdi]

Sorta on topic; I have two rifles chambered for handgun rounds, and I figgered they were designed for a handgun round so I used handgun data, right out of my reloading manual(s). I don't have any pressure testing equipment so I rely on published reloading data, done by those that have such equipment. Also, I've never had a need to go beyond (or up to) max load data and I have no concern with over pressures. If your question is just about theory or "I just wanna know", I have no experience with coated barrels...

[Steven66]

This article prompted me to get the Cast Performance bullets. The "load data" listed sounds like it's almost certainly overpressure and I'm glad I never tried it. I use the Hodgdon manual reloading data currently. I'm getting about 1600 fps with 14.5 grains of WW296 and the 158 grain NOE gaschecked, which is slightly under factory jacketed loads speed.

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?...18772#msg18772

[cstrickland]

I have a Ruger 77/357 and always want to stay within the accepted pressure specifications. When I was starting out with it, I bought some Cast Performance LBT style bullets in 180 and 187 grains for it that I won't use because I haven't been able to find pressure level specs for loading them. I wound up getting a NOE mold in 158 grains and using bullets cast from it. I just wondered whether (because the barrel steel is harder now) there would be any appreciable change in pressures.

interesting. It has always been my understanding ( and I am no expert so take this for the free information it is) that cast even hard cast required less pressure than jacketed (as evident by loading manuals giving lower pressures for cast loads also). Simple due to the fact that cast lead even hard cast on the high side is typically high 20's to low 30's BHN , where as copper jackets are around 100-130 bhn (from my research), so it will take considerable less pressure to engrave and force through a rifled barrel.

I have heard of some getting certain alloys up to 45BHN, but I believe those are pretty irrelavent to the average caster loader, and still well below th ejacketed BHN

[cstrickland]

This article prompted me to get the Cast Performance bullets. The "load data" listed sounds like it's almost certainly overpressure and I'm glad I never tried it. I use the Hodgdon manual reloading data currently. I'm getting about 1600 fps with 14.5 grains of WW296 and the 158 grain NOE gaschecked, which is slightly under factory jacketed loads speed.

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?...18772#msg18772

I did not read the whole article and maybe I am missing something but he stated this as a bullet point

With this 187 gr. LBT bullet you get 8% to 20% less pressure at the same velocity/output as a jacketed bullet

which jives with what I have found. I am familiar with the Garrett cartridges that he mentioned as well . I looked at their hard cast loads and they have three levels that fall within the industry norm for 45/70 . trapdoor loads, modern rifles and high pressure.


******* EDIT *******

I went back and looked a the load data. Based on what I see hodgdon is listing a 180 grain nosler partition 357 in front of 13.5grains of H110 or 296 with a max velocity of 1396 from a 10" barrel , so yes I would agree his load load seems WAYYY over recommended max . He stated like 17.5 gr at 1900+

could have been a typo on his part. He was thinking 357 magnum but gave load for 357 max or something. ALWAYS check internet loads against known published loads and proceed with caution.

I personally would have no issues loading that bullet in fear of over pressure, but I would not use his data . If I need to push a bullet that far above normal range I need a bigger bore.

[cstrickland]

This article prompted me to get the Cast Performance bullets. The "load data" listed sounds like it's almost certainly overpressure and I'm glad I never tried it. I use the Hodgdon manual reloading data currently. I'm getting about 1600 fps with 14.5 grains of WW296 and the 158 grain NOE gaschecked, which is slightly under factory jacketed loads speed.

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?...18772#msg18772

also if you look and read the entire post the auther stated this in another post >

First off, I did not write that !! It was sent to me by a friend.

I have not had a chance to pick up a 357 carbine yet, so I have not played with these loads or bullets.

I would think they would work fine in a revolver. You probably would't want to feed a Smith a steady diet
of these loads, but a Ruger SA should handle all you want fine.

The info says 17 gr. of H110 or 296, but my Hornady book says about 13 is max, but that is with a
jacketed bullet. Work up carefully !!!

[kevin c]

I'm not a chemist, metallurgist or materials engineer, but isn't the process the OP's referring to a surface treatment that doesn't change the characteristics of the underlying metal? It's a form of case hardening, isn't it, where you get an abrasion or rust resistant surface along with the strength characteristics of the rest of the metal below? Same sort of thing as with the edges of razor blades and katanas, only done chemically instead of differential heat treatment?

[tomme boy]

I shoot my AR9 with all cast bullets. It has a nitrate treated barrel. I have no issues whatsoever. I run a 135gr powder coated at 1350fps. I run plain lubed at 1200fps out of it when get into my stash of rounds that were loaded before I powder coated everything. No issues at all with either.

I also have 2 AR15 in 556 that I shoot a 65gr at 2600fps powder coated. They are both Nitride treated and no issues. No leading anywhere. Not even on the tail of the bolt where if you are getting leading it shoots down the gas tube and sticks to the bolt tail from gas leakage when it passes to gas port.

[Steven66]

Thank you for all of the replies. I didn't really think it was going to cause any issues, but I thought I'd check with the brain trust just to be sure.

[ioon44]

Are there any caveats to cast bullet loads in nitrided ( “Liquid Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing Non-Cyanide Bath", usually abbreviated as "FNC") barrels? I'm wondering about pressure changes mainly. Thanks in advance!

I have the Walther PPQ's in 9 mm, .40S&W & .45 ACP which are "FNC" barrels and shoot Hi-Tek coated cast bullets sized .002" over what the slug measures, the shoot clean and accurate.