44Mag Bullet Fit

[Mal Paso]

Is Lee the only one with a collet crimp die?

[DougGuy]

Buffalo Bore uses the collet crimp on the heavies yes. I use a modified collet crimp that works great. The thing with the collet is that the crimp band is too wide. I covers the end of the case mouth and then also crimps any of the boolit ahead of the case once it is closed fully. I mod them to make the crimp band much narrower, and I shorten the collet to bring it down on the case mouth where crimp is needed, and it doesn't crimp the boolit ahead of the case mouth where crimp is not needed.

Here is a thread with a lot of pics explaining the mod to fine tune the Lee collet crimp die:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2239315

I find that the collet crimp provides enough resistance to give the powder a tad bit more time to ignite and build pressure before pulling crimp, it cut down my ES tremendously and loads over the chrony were all 1180 - 1200, groups were shrunk appreciably because ignition became much more consistent than a roll crimp would provide. Load was the Lee C430-310-RF over 17.0gr 2400 in Starline brass with WLP primers. Alloy was cast as 50/50+2% but it scratched with a thumbnail very easily. Best hunting load I have ever shot out of a SBH, and had to regulate the rear sight with a belt sander and file a new notch in the center to get it low enough to shoot to the sights.

[Don Purcell]

Doug Guy, I've lived a sheltered life and have never used the collet crimp dies and from your photos of the crimp am I wrong in thinking that it would reduce the effect of slightly different case lengths? Different lengths would be in the .005 to .007 range.

[DougGuy]

Doug Guy, I've lived a sheltered life and have never used the collet crimp dies and from your photos of the crimp am I wrong in thinking that it would reduce the effect of slightly different case lengths? Different lengths would be in the .005 to .007 range.

It would certainly remove case length as a variable, yes. The collet closes from the sides, and if it's a few thousandths different it's still going to apply the same amount of crimp, where a roll crimp or a taper crimp will vary with each change in case length, shorter cases would get less crimp, longer cases would get more crimp.

[Don Purcell]

That's what I thought. A friend of mine loaded his ammo on Star reloaders and the crimp looked just like your photos and I assumed he was cranking down a hell of a roll crimp. For whatever reason I never asked him about it. Since he was using a Star with Star dies I'm curious now if Star had these or if he was like I said really cranking down on the crimp. John Ross may be able to clear this up but I believe I will order one of these to try and use your suggestions on modifications. Thanks.

[Petander]

Is Lee the only one with a collet crimp die?

Redding Profile Crimp is good too. It is tight though, made for j-bullet size ammo.

I'm using a Redding Profile Crimp for full power 500 S&W NLG (NOE) and 45-70 (MP) loads with NLG bullets.

Doug is right here with the modification,again.

[Mal Paso]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

[bluejay75]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

I modified mine with a disc sander in a drill. Doug Guy’s instructions were pretty easy to follow. I ruined a few cast boolits to get it to my liking. Lee collet is cheap enough that I bought 3.

I thought I was wearing them out, but from time to time spread the collets back out with a thin knife and they bounce back good as new.

[bluejay75]

If you expand the pic...You can see that theres 4-5mm of crimp that goes up into the full diameter of the WFN Boolit. Sanded down it makes the collet thinner and it gives a clean crimp at the top of the case as in the SWC boolits on the left. I used Starline as a reference. So RP/ PMC brass crimps down on the case a little but still makes a solid crimp. And short brass, like the pile of GFL brass still scores the boolit. But not as bad as in the pic. I have a 1000 of those loaded and they shoot great. Thats the NOE 44 WFN 280. One hell of a killer behind 22 grains of H110.

Hope that was clear. Its hard to explain. But to save you some trial and error...dont set your modified crimp to your shortest or longest brass.

[Mal Paso]

Cool! I have a stationary belt sander that shapes metal just fine. I'm guessing the collet spaces off the shell holder.

[DougGuy]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

My first one I used a drill press with a big 3/4" chuck.

I do these in a lathe for customers that want to send them, only prob is min shop charge is slightly more than the die but you get back something you can't readily order online so, you pay only for the tweak really..

I'm guessing the collet spaces off the shell holder.

It does. All I require is a measurement from the top of the shell holder to the case mouth so you use one of your average length cases to measure from. I like to set the crimp band down just below the case mouth so there is an ever so slight bit of case mouth sticking up above the collet.

For a 44, I have noticed that a .432" boolit will sometimes shave a tad bit of lead in 4 places very very slightly IF it is a soft alloy, like scratchable with a thumbnail, harder alloys don't shave. Also, the collet is set for factory ammo dimensions, and it may force the collet open if you use .432" which is no big deal but if you push it all the way until the collet closes fully, it will crimp the dog **** out of the assembled round, it helps if you fit the collet in a lathe and open up the inside of the crimp band just enough so that when all 4 fingers are fully closed, it doesn't over crimp. Sorta like opening up a Lee sizing die .001" only a little more tedious to do.

[Don Purcell]

Doug Guy I received my Lee Collet Die yesterday and made up a dummy round with the #503 Keith at .432 and as you said it crimped the rear half of the front band down to .427. I tried to send an email to you but for some reason I have the worst luck on sending emails from this site to some folks but can usually receive them O.K.. Since you already have done this modification I would like to send my die you and have it done, I just need the particulars on sending it to you. Thanks, Don.

[Don Purcell]

One question I have is how the devil do you get the collet out of the die body? Is it pressed out? Didn't want to force it.

[DougGuy]

One question I have is how the devil do you get the collet out of the die body? Is it pressed out? Didn't want to force it.

The collet is easily damaged by trying to remove it. I use a pin that fits the bore of the shell snugly and drive it out. I put a Lee hex nut on the die shell and hold it loosely in a vise while I knock the collet out.

Look for a PM.

[Don Purcell]

Got it, thanks Doug. Will be sending my die next week. Thanks, Don.

[Petander]

For a 44, I have noticed that a .432" boolit will sometimes shave a tad bit of lead in 4 places very very slightly IF it is a soft alloy, like scratchable with a thumbnail, harder alloys don't shave. Also, the collet is set for factory ammo dimensions, and it may force the collet open if you use .432" which is no big deal but if you push it all the way until the collet closes fully, it will crimp the dog **** out of the assembled round.

Here we have a (Mihec #503) bullet, front band is .432" and base is .433". Cases were expanded with NOE .431". BHN ~13.

The left round was crimped with a stock Lyman Taper Crimp die, I like it for the crimp for mild target ammo but.. you can actually see how it squeezes the front... the bullet inside goes down to .4285" about. Coating gets damaged when pulled/fired.

To the right is a stock Redding Profile Crimp -round. I like that crimp too. This die doesn't squeeze the bullet as long way but it shaves the .432" front band most of the time. And the squeeze (down to .430") is enough to completely ruin your size and fit.

These dies work good but usually need mods for oversize bullets. Measure your ammo before and after crimping.

[Mal Paso]

I've been using the Hornady Custom Grade seat/crimp die, roll crimp. The Larsen doesn't have much of a crimp groove. I give it.036" crimp, about all it will take. The #503 will take almost .050".

[Petander]

I've been using the Hornady Custom Grade seat/crimp die, roll crimp.

I have a Lee and Lyman.

Lyman seater is tight, it often scratches a .432" bullet like the #503 front band here.

I have some fine tuning to do here - the whole 44 thing sort of jumped on me after a break and I like it a lot. Need to modify some dies etc.



Some more room in that Lyman seater would be nice - my Lee doesn't scrape. But I like that lee for seating, I don't like adjusting dies back and forth ....so a dedicated crimper is needed... open up my Redding or Lyman hmm...?

I wonder what a cowboy die set would do? Size everything less?

[Don Purcell]

Malpaso, It looks like the Larson has quite a bit of front "band" in front of the case to line everything up in the throat. It also appears to have increased powder room in the case as well.

[Petander]

Malpaso, It looks like the Larson has quite a bit of front "band" in front of the case to line everything up in the throat. It also appears to have increased powder room in the case as well.

Don, those two are the main reasons for my purchase. She just came in and is heat cycling now.

I'm becoming addicted to casting...