44Mag Bullet Fit

[Forrest r]

FWIW:

I have a beater 629-4 with .4295 cylinders & the leade in the cylinders as already stated is pretty far forward. Years ago Brian Pearce did an article on this very subject when he was reloading 45lc's. His picture not mine, he wrote about moving the bullet forward into the leade for accuracy.
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The .4295" cylinder holes are a plus compared to the .432" cylinder holes in a 29-3 that I own. Playing around with wc's in the 629 I get excellent accuracy with the type III wc's with the tapered noses. The bullets are crimped in their crimp grooves (200gr & 245gr). The strait sided wc's do better when they are seated out either into or next to the taper of the leade.
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Like others I have a lot of different 44cl molds and the issue I have is if I load the bullets long to get then to sit in the leade of the cylinders there isn't much left for case neck tension/crimping. Myself I try to have a minimum of the bullet's diameter in the case for neck tension/crimping. Most of my 44cal bullets don't do that when loaded long into the leade's of the cylinders.

IMHO:
Bullets with the smaller front drive bands tend to do better with seated back (freebore) from the taper of the leade's. Rounded shouldered fn/wfn tend to be more accurate when driven hard. I can only assume it's because in both cases there isn't as much distortion as the tapered bullets align in the leade's. It's actually pretty hard finding a bullet that's long enough in the body to fit into the leade of the cylinders of that 629 and still have enough left in the case for neck tension/crimp. The end result is either heavy long bullets or extra with wfn's. Those long bodied 220gr hbwc's do extremely well when crimped in the top lube groove. The nose of the hbwc has a slight bevel designed for a crimp but it also aids in aligning in the taper of the leade's. I made these home made jacketed bullets for the 629 and a 44mag contender. The top crimp groove is for the 629 & the bottom crimp groove is for the llllloooonnnnnngggggg throated contender (looks like 10" of throat & 4" of rifling when looking in that 14" bbl). The wfn nose is designed for the taper of the leade in the 629's cylinders.
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Getting the bullets out into the leade's of the cylinders in nothing new, the long bodied bullets makes it a lot easier. 357mg's loaded with wc's.
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Testing loads for accuracy in a .432" s&w 624 using those 220gr hbwc's sized to .432"
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Between the pc increasing the nose diameter of these mihec 640's and crimping the bullets long/bottom crimp groove in 38spl cases. They have a good fit in both my 38spl & 357 revolvers along with limited distortion from the standard pressured 38spl loads.
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When loading the same bullet in 357 cases I still use the bottom crimp groove.

To me the issue with getting the bullets out there in the 44cal's is there isn't a lot left for case neck tension and crimping.

[Don Purcell]

Petander, I have been considering to try coatings and you mention that Hi Teck is "Thin and predictable". Is the process with Hi Teck the same as with the other coatings? You have said it doesn't really change the diameter of the bullet to any degree which would be very interesting when bullets come out of the mold at or close to the desired diameter. Thanks for any info.

[Petander]

Petander, I have been considering to try coatings and you mention that Hi Teck is "Thin and predictable". Is the process with Hi Teck the same as with the other coatings? You have said it doesn't really change the diameter of the bullet to any degree which would be very interesting when bullets come out of the mold at or close to the desired diameter. Thanks for any info.

Don, you may want to take a look at the giant Hi Tek thread and post there. Hi Tek is not PC, it's applied in liquid form , then let the bullets dry, then bake.

Hi Tek adds about .001" with two coats. It's always the same because the recipe is always the same. I find my PC varies quite a bit especially between different powders/colours,no matter what.

Smoke's Carolina Blue looks very repeatable and can be coated quite thin when you weigh powder and bullets every time.

[Don Purcell]

OK, thanks, will check it out.

[Petander]

It's nice to have different coating options to fine tune bullet / cartridge fit.

Is anyone nose sizing 44's?

[Forrest r]

yup made 2 different nose sizing dies.

1 for a 450 lymn sizer

1 for herter's 9-ton swaging press

[Petander]

I wonder how NOE nose sizers work with coated bullets...?

Any scraping or do they just swage when done right?

[Mal Paso]

I wonder how NOE nose sizers work with coated bullets...?

Any scraping or do they just swage when done right?

I don't understand why you would size just the nose. Wouldn't that leave the tail of the bullet larger than the throats? I size the whole length of the bullet to the diameter of the throats. I've also tailored the brass sizing dies to match .4313 bullets.

[Petander]

I don't understand why you would size just the nose. Wouldn't that leave the tail of the bullet larger than the throats? I size the whole length of the bullet to the diameter of the throats. I've also tailored the brass sizing dies to match .4313 bullets.

Some PC can get a bit too thick. Body sizing won't fix the oversize nose, think MP Larsen for example.

By sizing the nose down a bit they chamber again, regardless of the body diameter,and you may be able to get a perfect fit that way.

Another good option is to cast and coat the perfect size to begin with - I'm there already with several colours- but I'm a hopeless tweaker... Always interested in making things more complicated than they need to be.

[Mal Paso]

I would like to test these bullets against each other and have gone as far as I can with iron sights. I've never had much luck with machine rests (ransom) for 44 Mag so I ordered a 7 power scope today. Also rings and a rail for my 6" Smith. Forgot to order sandbags. They all disappeared from the range with covid.

[Don Purcell]

Finally got around to loading some 250 grain Larsen slugs. My full load with the 503 Keith is 25 grains of 296 with CCI -350 Magnum primer. Measuring from the crimp to the base reveals at least an extra 1 1/2 grains of powder room to for the Larsen. I loaded the 25 grain charge and used my new Doug Guy modified Lee Collett crimp die. Hope to shoot and chronograph next week as this weekend is handgun deer season and don't want to be shooting back into my woods.

[Petander]

I loaded the 25 grain charge and used my new Doug Guy modified Lee Collett crimp die.

I got this when I ordered a Lee factory crimp die:



The store said Lee only makes one. Well, a quick Google shows three different 44 mag Lee crimpers. This is 90863, collet is 90930 and taper is 90784.

[onelight]

Lee , in my imho made confusing goof when they labeled both the collet crimp and the carbide crimp dies "factory crimp dies" .
If you want to see if the carbide die is going to post size , load one and crimp with the seating die and see if the cartridge will slip past the carbide ring in FCD by hand if it will it's not post sizing. None of my revolver FCDs do with the diameter bullets I use.

[Petander]

Lee , in my imho made confusing goof when they labeled both the collet crimp and the carbide crimp dies "factory crimp dies" .
If you want to see if the carbide die is going to post size , load one and crimp with the seating die and see if the cartridge will slip past the carbide ring in FCD by hand if it will it's not post sizing. None of my revolver FCDs do with the diameter bullets I use.

Yes this may or may not work with .432". And very slight post sizing may not ruin my mild loads because... :

I have a strange way of loading MILD 44 mag, I only size the brass with a Lee sizer very little so that I hardly need the NOE .431 expander. Just so-so neck tension. I seat with a Lee and then use a Lyman taper crimp to size enough to chamber... it also taper crimps, obviously... yes there is springback risk but my last step is a little roll crimp with a Lee seater die.

This way the brass gets worked minimally and lasts forever.

My hot loads everything is tighter. I size and seat with Redding etc... Redding is generally snug tight, better for j-bullets.

I might replace that last crimp step with Lee collet like I do 500. 357 works fine with a Redding profile crimper. In 44 and 500 the Redding profile crimper scrapes my coatings.

So many sizes and dies to combine. And I have a Hornady 44 cowboy set coming...

[Petander]

Lee crimp is nice. But I'll cut the carbide sizer part out.

It didn't ruin my ammo but even with the small squeeze it is causing unnecessary bullet & case sizing / brass spring back / neck tension looseness.