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Thread: 44Mag Bullet Fit

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    44Mag Bullet Fit

    Fit is King! Bullet diameter has been well covered but other dimensions affect accuracy too. Fit is important to Firearms and Bullet Mold Manufacturers too but not always in a good way. Ammo MUST FIT THE GUN! Forward drive bands on bullets get reduced (Elmer's Complaint) and cylinder throats get moved forward so the two can't interfere with each other. If you are looking for accuracy you might want the forward drive band Inside The Throat so there was No Jump to the throat or chance of misalignment. Lots of us have been happy with the H&G #503 with a little over .010" of Full Diameter Drive Band ahead of the case. There is now a Hollow Point that goes deeper with approx. .140" of Full Size Drive Band ahead of the case. The MP-Molds-Larsen-C432-250-RF. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4-Hollow-Point Here are pictures of unsized dummy rounds (4325") chambered in an Anaconda, Redhawk and S&W 629 with throat marks at .08", .12" and .14" from the end of the (Starline) brass respectively. Throats are .4313", .432", .4313". I have several hundred loaded and will put them up against the #503s and 432-640s next trip to the range. Could be a winner.
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    Mal

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  2. #2
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    Keep us posted.
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  3. #3
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    I've tried various amounts ahead of the case. I size bullets to what I call a slip fit, meaning they won't just fall through, but don't push hard through either. With a Keith .100" long front band, cartridges always fall freely right into the charge holes. I've got another mold that is a tangential RNFP, very similar to the bullet you have pictured, except the front band as cast is .100" long. The thing is, the front band gets longer as you size it. When sized, that bullets front band is closer to .120" long. Those too will fall right in under gravity. I've also tried seating certain bullets longer, and find that around .140", the cartridges don't just fall in every time, and need a swipe of my thumb to seat. This is going to vary by gun, and by sizing, but this has been the case in 3 of my revolvers now. I think .100-.120" is the sweet spot. .100" should be slightly into the throat of most revolvers, as can be seen by seating an unisized bullet backwards with .100" proud of the case.

    One design I've been rather proud of is the Accurate 31-148CG. You will see that I gave it a section of reduced diameter. These fall right in the cylinder. Upon firing, the bullet sets back, and that whole front section becomes the diameter of the throat. It is essentially a .220" long front driving band. These have proven exceptionally accurate in 327 federal. I've recently done a scaled up version for 44 magnum, and I hope they do as well.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 10-21-2020 at 08:10 PM.

  4. #4
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    Seems like we were looking for the exact same thing, good sir. And... if you have to go a little deeper into the case to get the fit in the cylinder correct, you have a good place to taper or collet crimp on.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejay75 View Post
    Seems like we were looking for the exact same thing, good sir. And... if you have to go a little deeper into the case to get the fit in the cylinder correct, you have a good place to taper or collet crimp on.
    If your bullets are sized to fit the throats, there is no need to crimp out of groove. The lube groove is far enough back there is room to play and you can crimp however works best for you.

    Thanks for Honchoing this mold. I think it was slow to run because there were other 44 RNFP HPs in production. Miha made a comment on the large number of different designs. The Terminator which was the last 44 HP to run has a reduced front band, maybe good for rifle but of no use to me. The Larsen was the one I wanted to play with. Thanks!
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  6. #6
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    what should i do in a 44 rifle that dont have a throat and just a taper to the rifling? should i try snugging the boolit up closer and deal with single feed from long length, cause im stuck at 4moa+ even though im sized right for the bore

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    what should i do in a 44 rifle that dont have a throat and just a taper to the rifling? should i try snugging the boolit up closer and deal with single feed from long length, cause im stuck at 4moa+ even though im sized right for the bore
    Ideally you would have the rifle throated. I'm not sure if that is as easily done as with a pistol barrel though. If it were mine, I would try the bullet slightly engraving the rifling. If the OAL is too long, you can try a bullet with an extremely long front band, but that would be a custom mold.

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    I just got done explaining this fitment into the throats in triplebeard's thread, yes you get the best accuracy when the bearing surfaces/sides/front driving band of the boolit is centered by the throat.

    However... Don't assign the priority to the throat diameter, assign the priority to the boolit diameter, that is the more important one of the two, then size the throats to half thou over boolit diameter. It's more important to deliver the boolit to the bore at the desired diameter, than it is to fit it to a throat that may not be large enough to do so.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM-> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/priv...=newpm&u=29606 Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

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    I think a test by someone who would do the test in a well informed fashion would be good. Say work up the best loads with each bullet variable and then shoot a couple 10 shot groups with each bullet and post the targets. No 3 or 5 shot groups. I feel two 10 shot groups would show more worth as far a showing what the bullets would do with all testing done at a minimum of 50 yards.
    Then do the same test shooting offhand at say 50 yards and shoot 2 ten shot groups with each load and see if the most accurate load would makes a difference that would actually be called dramatic enough over the others to move the shooter into a level not yet achieved before the test.
    It would be interesting to see the results.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I think .100-.120" is the sweet spot. .100" should be slightly into the throat of most revolvers, as can be seen by seating an unisized bullet backwards with .100" proud of the case.
    As I look at the SAAMI drawing there should be about .088" from the end if the cartridge to the beginning of the throat including the tapers. Only the Anaconda has that. In my guns, Ruger and S&W moved theirs forward of that as you can see on the unsized chambered dummy rounds. The Ruger throats start .120" ahead of the cartridge and the Smith .140".

    SAAMI lists cartridge maximum and Chamber Minimum sizes so I guess the manufacturers are free to make the chamber longer. I just hate chasing throats. LOL
    Last edited by Mal Paso; 10-22-2020 at 01:37 PM.
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  11. #11
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    SAMMI is only a voluntary thing anyway, that's how so many rifles end up without throats at all. I've tried my two GP100's and one Redhawk, and all three seem to have the throat start about .090" past the case. I am checking this by seating an unsized bullet backwards, and leaving .090" proud of the mouth. I just tried another method of using a fired case, and an unsized bullet that tightly, but freely slips into the case backwards. I then slid the cartridge into my GP100 and used my thumb to fully seat the cartridge, and thus the bullet. Again I got about .090". One factor I did not think about was headspace. Using said GP100 and an empty case, I have .010" of headspace, meaning a .100" driving band would only be flush, not into the throat with the cartridge against the frame.

  12. #12
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    Did you make it to the range?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejay75 View Post
    Did you make it to the range?
    Nope, work. After a totally dead third quarter I have work. Will try to get there after work tomorrow.
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  14. #14
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    It's a conspiracy. There were unbelievable production delays with the mold and then THEY closed The Range the last 2 weeks to prevent testing. Someone is afraid this bullet will upset the balance of power and lead to world domination.

    Or it's just a lousy run of luck. LOL I've got a batch of water dropped Larsens now and I'll load some of those today. I have 100 air cooled over 10g of N350 to shoot against the 432-640 but the #503s with 20g of 2400 were water dropped so I'd like to shoot WD Larsens at that speed along with air cooled. I'm looking for accuracy not expansion.
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  15. #15
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    I shot the MP 432-255 GC against the MP 432-250 Beartooth Clone as a plain base. I was shocked that the Beartooth Clone outshot the GC SWC by a full inch at 80 yards. And both were outshot by a 432-280 NOE WFN.

    Then I shot the Hammer at 270 and the NOE 280 SWC and both outshot everything else. I’m confused now.

    All loads were worked up and batch loaded. Was trying to see what was the best for pistol and rifle use. Best in pistol is the GC SWC. Best in rifle is the 434 Hammer.
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  16. #16
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    I got a chance to shoot the Larsen today. It was a nice day at the range both weather and people. They let me warm up on Steel while I waited for a paper target lane. I had no trouble with 2-3 inch targets at 25 yards. The load was 10g N350 for maybe 1000 fps. The deep hollowpoint is about 237g. They were hitting right where the full power 260g #503s do. I managed to flip 2 of those multi target "trees", I had just blown the top target of tree 2 out of it's socket when they called me for paper. Good time to move. LOL The gun is a S&W 629 6" half lug with a patridge front sight and a Rough Country rear that is locked down right where a full power #503 hits. I shot a 2" 6 shot 25y group right away. That seemed to be the limit of my shooting today with iron sights. I forget I don't have a chrony or a scope again yet. The guy 2 lanes down had Lab Radar, not a bit jealous, I spent that money on powder. I had 100 air cooled Larsen's over 20g of 2400 and I shot those at 25Y from the 4" Redhawk. The lube groove is small but there was no leading in the Ruger. The smoke is definitely less than the #503.

    I like this bullet! I'll see if I can scrounge a scope.
    Mal

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  17. #17
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    Thanks sir!!! Will try the 20 grain 2400 load in my rifles.
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  18. #18
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    Here are two MP 432-640 dummies loaded to touch the throats. I may try half a thou larger bullet... these are .432", my bore is .431" but everything is still in testing phase. These rounds take almost all of my 629 cylinder length. The third round is NEI 335 grain.

    I'd love an NLG version of this MP mold, can't really crimp here in the lube groove I use NLG:s and collet crimp for 500 with a good success snug fit.

    Miha is busy, does not even reply to NLG question emails so I'm looking somewhere else now, in terms if NLG. It's so good to be able to crimp wherever you like.


  19. #19
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    Thanks, that got me thinking.

    Early on I had a bullet pull (roll crimp) and tie up the cylinder so I've always used a firm crimp in the groove. Buffalo Bore uses a collet crimp for their heavy loads and I had no problem with those. I may just get a collet die. I'd like to seat the #503 .050" further forward to catch the throats of all my guns.
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  20. #20
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    Collet die is worth its weight in gold. It’s the only crimp I use on full power ball powder loads. Made all my loads more accurate in 44 and 357.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check