What In The Wide, Wide World Of Sports.......

[centershot]

.....Is going on here?

I got my order of Fiocchi hulls from Graf's a couple of days ago. Yesterday I loaded, or, attempted to load, some 20 gauge RB loads. Seventeen grains of Unique, WW AA20, three 24 ga. 125 nitro cards and a .575" RB. That didn't work out very well. See pics below. I made adjustments to my 600 Jr. crimping die but couldn't successfully crimp any of them. I have been using WW AA hulls up until now w/o a problem, nice tight crimps and never bulged a single hull. The Fiocchi's did seem to roll crimp well though!

ETA - AJ's trick with the plastic pipe won't work, there's no room inside the crimp die.

I switched to the Fiocchi 12 ga. hulls (orange) and loaded some buckshot rounds, #1, 2x5, RP SP12 over 25 of Unique. Other than needing a little buffer to raise the crimp these loaded OK.

I'm open to suggestions, before my experimentation destroys more hulls.

[centershot]

Forgot the pics!

Attachment 269863Attachment 269864Attachment 269865Attachment 269866Attachment 269867

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Centershot, not all loaders fully support the hull while the loading progresses. My Apex machine needed 1/2 to 9/16 bottom support so I got that pipe from Home Depot. You can put a hull in your machine and after pulling down the handle all the way check how much of the hull is not supported now measure that for your ring support.
**--** Could it be because you were using 24 gauge nitro cards in stead of 28 gauge and thus making the hulls bulge




Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[MUSTANG]

1st and 2nd pics look like the results I got when I tried reloading 20 gauge plastic shotshell with the Lee Shotshell Bench loader back in the early 1980's. After the shot dribbled out for a couple of shells - The loader went back into the bottom of a footlocker with "REJECTED" reloading equipment and other junk stuff. It's still out in the reloading shed buried somewhere.

Be interesting to watch discussion and suggestions. Maybe I'll dig the Lee Shotloader out this winter if the discussion and recommendations provide better insight. Best wishes on your search for knowledge in this area.

[Hogtamer]

Leave off at least one of the cards, maybe 2. I know that's frustrating. Ditto the 24 ga cards.

[megasupermagnum]

The MEC system is a very touchy setup that almost requires backwards thinking. The first thing I would do is back the cam all the way off. The cam adjust how soon the outer die lowers, and is what puts the taper on the end of the hull. What happens, is this die pushes straight down on the hull. It is a very fine line between a nice taper, and a crumpled shell. Start by backing it off fully. Then you can adjust the crimp depth. Sometimes on really tough loads, I would first crimp to depth, then adjust the cam to taper, essentially final crimping in 2 steps.

[jimb16]

Mega has it right. The crimp die is set to low for those hulls. Back it off a bit and the center rod a bit more. When you can bring the die all the way down without crushing the case you can move the crimp button down until you get the crimp you are looking for. Patient adjustment is the key here.

[bcp477]

That is awful. I am sympathetic, for whatever that is worth. Hope you get it solved. However, I can't help thinking that this is another great reason why I don't crimp shotgun hulls...

[Sig]

Where was the stack height prior to crimping? I agree with others, remove at least one card.

[dverna]

Isn't the AA hull tapered and the Fiocchi straight wall?

[Ateam]

did you order 2 3/4 and receive 3 inch?

[centershot]

Thanks all for your replies!

So, to answer some questions:



Stack height - The load was from one of my Lyman manuals for 3/4 ounce shot load. I subbed the cards and ball. The hull, wad and powder charge should bring the stack height to correct position. The ball sat approximately 1/32' above the top edge of the wad petals, leaving approximately 7/16" of hull above the payload.

To the best of my knowledge, the AA is a tapered hull (internally), I do not know with certainty if the Fiocchi is straight or tapered.

I ordered 2-3/4" and that's what I received. My 20 ga. is a '70's era Ithaca M37 with a 2-3/4" chamber. I wish it was 3"!

I tried removing one card, the crimp sunk deeply (and was open) into the hull.

Some are saying no to the 24 ga. cards, should I have used 28 ga.? If so, please explain why, the 24's seem to fit nicely.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Centershot, I kept wondering where did you get the idea of using 24 gauge nitro cards below the .575 RB as I had measured the bottom of the Trap Commander wad and the 28 gauge fit just right but still needed a socket with a handle to push it all the way down like this

The same 28 gauge also fit the base cavity of the OP part of the wad, I bought the nitro cards from Circle Fly at half the cost and double the quantity.

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[centershot]

As mentioned above, patient adjustment is the key! I'm not there yet, but can now get a hull crimped w/o crushing it! The folds aren't quite right yet but I'll get it ironed out.

[WebMonkey]

skived vs unskived hulls?

i only have a lee load-all for 20ga and it does very well with re-used and skived new hulls.
not as good with new unskived hulls.
a quick skivving on unskived hulls makes a big difference.

good luck!

[bikerbeans]

You already solved your problem, use the roll crimper.

BB

[centershot]

You already solved your problem, use the roll crimper.

BB

Yup! Now that I've adjusted the crimp die to handle the Fiocchi's I'm wondering what's gonna' happen when I load the AA's! If I need to re-adjust (again) I'll probably leave it set for the AA's and roll crimp the Fiocchi's. I don't mind using overshot cards for shot loads.

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, you have to adjust for different hulls. Sometimes they are close, sometimes not so much. What you can do though, is mark the position of the cam for each with a dab of paint.

[centershot]

Greetings Centershot, I kept wondering where did you get the idea of using 24 gauge nitro cards below the .575 RB as I had measured the bottom of the Trap Commander wad and the 28 gauge fit just right but still needed a socket with a handle to push it all the way down like this

The same 28 gauge also fit the base cavity of the OP part of the wad, I bought the nitro cards from Circle Fly at half the cost and double the quantity.

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

That's a typo, it should have read 28 ga. cards, not 24 ga.