Chassepot Primers

[GregLaROCHE]

When loading Chassepot paper cartridges, most people I’ve known use a winged musket cap. A portion is removed from each side or holes drilled to allow the explosion to easily reach the powder. The remaining wings are then glued to a cardboard disk. This is then inserted into the paper case with the cap facing in the opposite direction than for a normal cartridge. This is because this gun uses a long needle to pierce though the back of the paper case, through a rubber disk before striking the anvil causing ignition.

My question is, has it ever been tried using the primer in the normal direction and the needle striking the primer like a firing pin? A primer touching a card disk against compressed BP, shouldn’t move much and I think it would go off.

The only problem I see is the needle may not hold up always contacting the metal of the primer.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I’m tempted to try it, but don’t want to take any chances that could damage this antique gun.

[GregLaROCHE]

Well I guess there aren’t many people loading and shooting Chassepots these days.

[15meter]

Or try a different main thread to pose the question, I almost never go to black powder cartridge thread. Kind of stumbled on this by accident.

I suspect I am not alone in going to specific main threads that are of interest.

May want to try "cast boolits" that seems to get the most traffic. Or "military rifles".

Sorry I can't help with the specific question, closest I've come to one of those rifles is shooting next to one last Saturday at my club's vintage military shoot---anything pre 1960 with original open sights.

The 1960 eliminates the the guys showing up with full race mouse guns and encourages the OLD stuff to come out of the safe and play.

To encourage the old, less than pristine rifles we also pay just two places, first place and average.

[yulzari]

I have never heard of it tried that way but I suspect that the thin pointed end will fail to impart enough energy to fire off the primer compound on the other side of the primer cap metal and quickly blunt and cause issues with piercing the rubber disk. With implications for the disk to hang up and not be expelled by the back pressure of the chamber behind it. Rubber disk hang ups are not unknown even with the normal set up. Also the powder, even at it's best construction, is not a very rigid support. Being packed close and not compressed.

There are many ways to make the cartridges to be found across the net and you tube but I still found the closer one got to the original, the better it performed. Modern ways are often simpler though, if not historically accurate.

[elk hunter]

I have no experience with the Chassepot but do shoot a Dreyse and have had problems with the needle bending when it strikes the musket cap or Berdan primer that I have used. I'm looking for a alternative to the metal caps for ignition. I have looked at using paper cap gun caps but the amount of explosive mixture is small and would require several of the glued to the wad in order for the needle to reliably strike them. If you come up with a good alternative to the musket cap please share the information with us.

[Gewehr-Guy]

First let me say that I do not own a Chassepot, at least not yet, but I was wondering why not use a LR primer facing backwards?

The striker would then hit the primer's anvil, instead of losing energy having to dent the face of the primer.

I do have a couple Gras rifles, but have not shot them lately,maybe this winter.

[GregLaROCHE]

First let me say that I do not own a Chassepot, at least not yet, but I was wondering why not use a LR primer facing backwards?

The striker would then hit the primer's anvil, instead of losing energy having to dent the face of the primer.

I do have a couple Gras rifles, but have not shot them lately,maybe this winter.

The normal way is with the needle striking the anvil. Musket caps are used so the wings can be provide more area to press on a cardboard disk that then presses against the BP. This Helps keeps primer from moving when the needle strikes it. I punch a hole through the disk letting the primer pass through it and the wings hold it from going further.

[bedbugbilly]

Not familiar with the cartridge although I've seen a number of the rifles through the years.

I (and I'mm guessing others as well) would sure like to see some photos of the cartridges. Sounds like an interesting thing to play with.

[Cowboy32]

I have one of these rifles and always wanted to make some rounds. What diameter, weight bullet and the type of paper to roll. No comments. Never rolled ammo before.

[abunaitoo]

I've never thought of putting the cap on the other way.
But why????
I would suspect the needle might just go through without the cap going off.
When I first started, I've have the needle go through the cap without it going off.
Even when it went off, it seemed weak.
I now use a plastic toy cap, with a tiny bit of 4f, inside of the musket cap.
Never had any problems since.

[hpbear101]

I spent a lot of time trying to get CCI musket caps to work and never had much luck. I ordered RWS caps and they work great for a couple of reasons. The caps for CCI are copper, and brass in RWS. The brass cap is slightly harder and the needle crushes the priming compound rather than just penetrating the copper cap. The other nice part about the RWS cap is they are split down the side almost like they were designed for a Chassepot needle ignition. I fill the inside of the cap near full (loose not compressed) with ffffg, then glue it to a thin cardboard disk, these are very reliable.


To answer your question I have tried large rifle and shotgun primers with no luck. I make my needle's out of 1.6mm tungsten TIG electrodes. They are just slightly large in diameter so you have to thin them out with a diamond file or stone. One needle will probably last a lifetime as they are impervious to the heat generated by BP. I make the rubber obturator from rubber stoppers I buy at ACE Hardware and turn down to size. The one I am using now has several hundred rounds through it and going strong.

Tom

[15meter]

Closest I've come to a Chasspot, 10 days ago at our local Military Rifle Shoot.



Lots of flame and smoke, very cool stuff.

And he shot faster than a young feller down the line who was shooting an M1A, but he was single loading the M1A.

[abunaitoo]

They are fun to shoot.

I make my needles out of stainless wire.
Haven't had to change it yet.

[Troubleshooter]

I tried shotgun primers, but the paper cartridge has too much give to allow enough of a hit to set off the primer. I tried CCI musket caps, but more often than not, the needle would pierce the cap without setting it off. Now I use Schuetzen musket caps made of soft steel. I still encounter a failure to fire, but it is usually due to the needle being dirty and causing a soft strike.

[yeahbub]

I spent a lot of time trying to get CCI musket caps to work and never had much luck. I ordered RWS caps and they work great for a couple of reasons. The caps for CCI are copper, and brass in RWS. The brass cap is slightly harder and the needle crushes the priming compound rather than just penetrating the copper cap.

Something I've noticed about RWS No. 11's is that they are noticeably more sensitive than the CCI caps I've used. CCI's are fine for competition with my ML rifle and almost always fire, but for absolute reliability when hunting, I switch to RWS. It's not actually the CCI caps. My ML's hammer fall is a bit light.

[salpal48]

I also have a Chasspot . I had several good result with Musket caps , Only 1 good result with Large Rifle primer. But I rather shoot it than spend countless hours hoping that they work.
Then I found H&C Chasspot Conversion Kit. made in France . The kit comes with everything you need to convert to centerfire. Brass Cases ,lead Boolits , Powder measure and Conversion part to hold the case and NEW needle to act as firing Pin. this makes firing It a Dream.Once you install the new block to hold the case , it loads as any regular rifle. All cases take Large rifle primers.
www.hc-collections.com
Check them out

[Racing]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...bit-involved-Q

Read the entire thread.