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Thread: Opinions wanted on using short lighter bullets in long milsurp throats.

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Opinions wanted on using short lighter bullets in long milsurp throats.

    A 6.5 Norwegian Krag Bubba sporter followed me home recently, the groove bottoms are pretty frosty, maybe freckling would be a better term. Anyway, I have a large inventory of jacketed 120's and 140 spitzers that I could burn up...with the idea of
    1. fire lapping the bore with a little very fine Clover compound
    2. getting some idea of accuracy potential ( I lose interest fast if after the usual accuracy killers are checked and a rifle won't shoot)
    So the real question, how much do these old long throat profile barrels resent the use of short light bullets?
    The original Norwegian loading was a roundnose of 156 gr.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    flintlocke,

    I have a few 6.5s and some like lighter bullets and others did not. I had to trek to my backyard range and find out. Happily, it was about 50 paces back to my home and reloading bench to work up another test load. Most 140 grain jacketed worked well in my Arisakas, Krags and Corcanos. The 120s were a mixed bag.

    Hope this helps.

    Adam

  3. #3
    Banned

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    Have you tried any yet? It may surprise you!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master AntiqueSledMan's Avatar
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    Hello flintlocke,

    I've been using 130 gr spritzers in my Swede.
    It's my favorite rifle to sit on stand with,has not failed me yet.

    AntiqueSledMan.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man
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    Just a quick follow-up. A known accurate 120 gr load in three of my '96 Swedes performed dismally in the Krag. 8" groups at 100yds. I skipped over the 140 gr test loads, and went to 156 gr RN's which show good potential with a 5 shot group about 2.6" ( I'm nearing the limits of my eyesight and the huge aperture of the Williams rear sight). I will try the 140 gr loads in a couple days when the wind dies down. Perhaps the frosty grooves are not going to be a big accuracy spoiler like I feared. I'll be in clover if I can get it to shoot GC cast bullets after this test.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I have a Swede carbine with the slight barrel extension. Recently shot 130gr Sierra gamechanger in it Worked great.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Most anything that shoots in my Swede M96 or M38 will shoot as well or better in my N. Krag. Ive had excellent results w/140 and 120gr. esp. I was shooting Hirtenberger surplus 120flat base from Graf's back when available , should've bought them all. FWIW I routinely shoot Speeer 87gr. out of my stock bbl. length 1894 Krag at 200 , got some groups size of a cigarette pack with issue sights

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I'm sure some here will make me regret posting this but I can ignore their comments with the best of them . . .

    Clover abrasives are very aggressive and I have found great success using "Turtle Wax brand rubbing compound and very VERY low velocity loads, so low in some loads that I have seen the boolits stike he ground before the 50 yard target.
    I shoot at home so I can take a chance on a stuck boolit, if you have to go to a range be sure to use enough of a fast burning powder to bet the boolit clear of the barrel.
    Check the barrel every time until you are sure the boolit is cleared.

    I have found that it seems the first ones may be the hardest to get to clear and those following show the impact of the treatment.

    Haters . . . Save the electrons, I really don't care to hear it!
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  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I’ve posted several times on the method of determining OAL of a cartridge with a dowel, is probably available on the forum. Otherwise, if you send me a PM I’ll be glad to explain it, if you don’t already know it. Anyway, check what your max OAL is and consider seating the bullet further out(within reason) to reduce bullet jump.

    I’m getting ready to fire lap a couple of guns too. Let us know how it works for you and what grits you used.

    Also UKRIFLEMAN has developed a very accurate load for 6.5x55se GC boolit. It may not be the same exact cartridge, but could be a good starting point for you if you decide to continue to develop a load for the gun.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Can't speak to the 6.5 but in my US Krag the jump to the rifling an issue, trying 120 gr cast bullets accuracy was pretty bad. Don't sweat the frosting, my old Krag was pitted in the grooves from chamber to muzzle and still shot fine with J bullets and heavy cast bullets (311284). Did initially polish it with a bore snake and Turtle Wax chrome polish/rust remover, drop the end through and just before pulling the major diameter through drop about an oz in the chamber and pull through ten times. Then add another oz and repeat. Did this for about 100 total passes and whether it helped or not I don't know but it definitely shot well and had no leading issues.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Is this frosty enough? This is my accurate rifle. I get zero copper fowling in this bore.



    You can imagine what the throat of this barrel looked like. This barrel ended up as a shooter with short boolits.



    I have another rust damaged bore rifle, a 22 hornet, that shoots jacketeds very well, in spite of the enlarged chamber and long jump. There is a trick though that I have tested with a 303 and seems to work quite well. The same trick I use with the rust damaged hornet. I plan to test it with short bullets in a very worn bore 303 with way way too much jump in the worn throat. That one has to wait a while.

    The trick is to seat the bullet in a paper towel cup in an unsized neck. This supposedly holds the bullet concentric to the bore until it engages the rifling. Some folks would shy away from this king of loading practice, bearing in mind that case neck tension is non-existent so discretion is required. Bear in mind too that the 6.5 Swede has a large case volume while the 303 Brit and hornet have smaller volumes relative to the bore.



    In answer to the frosted groove issue, I have used this trick to dull the rust pit edges that might scrape copper off the jacket.





    That's Scotch Bride abrasive pads cut to an appropriate size. I oil them then push them through. It's great for removing lead too. It might not work well in the smaller bore though. The abrasiveness is only enough to remove dirt and rust, not so much sound steel.

    That furry rust did not damage the bore much and the rifling is actually strong to the muzzle but bullets enter the bore canted. I have one fat cast boolit that fills the cavernous throat and does remain concentric on firing.

    I suspect that you could just ignore the frosting though.

    P.S. If you are seeing a section of text underlined, it's not me. I don't know where it came from and I can't seem to get rid of it.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 10-24-2020 at 05:31 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  12. #12
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    For short bullets in a long throat, fit to throat with the bullet is crucial for success. The jacketed bullets will most likely be too small in diameter to give good results.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I am wanting to shot lighter and slower in one of my rifles (the 'frosted' bore two-groove or as I call it, the rust textured bore) and am looking at a 30 cal 110 hollow flat nose because it has a long-ish parallel shank. The idea is to paper patch it to fit throat and unsized neck. One might be able to do the same with a 6.5 Swede by paper patching 25 cal bullets to fit the throat and unsized neck.

    A 25 cal bullet is 6.528mm which is just a shade over theoretical 6.5 bore diameter so it might work but only just.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 10-28-2020 at 08:44 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a had good luck with a 266305 gas check mold 109 grains with fairly light red dot. It worked better on some of the 6.5's than heavier molds.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I can't speak to the 6.5, but I have used a 311410 sized variously to .308, .309, .310 and .311 in gallery/small game loads for bolt action .30-30, .308, .30-06, .300 WinMag, and .303 Brit. It has worked swimmingly in every instance except not wanting to feed worth beans from the magazine of the SMLE. It SHOOTS from it just fine, it just doesn't want to FEED. I don't have a Krag (YET!) so IDK ref .30-40. The nice groups I get from the low velocities I run this little boolit at make me want to try some heavier cast boolits, with GCs and more of a midrange load, for coyote/javelina size critters or maybe up to small deer. I 'inherited' a batch of heavier .30 molds from a retired CB benchrester friend and might cast up some of those to try. They mostly have scared me off trying them bcz most of them look awfully pointy for a cast boolit. I came into some 311291s sized .308 and another semi-pointed .30 that's a bit longer, so I'll prbly load some of those in the various .30s and see if I stumble onto an interesting load with them.
    Ed <><
    Last edited by Old School Big Bore; 11-03-2020 at 12:45 AM. Reason: left signature off

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    flintlocke did say bullets and I took that to mean jacketeds. Shooting shorter cast boolits or paper patched cast boolits should be a breeze.

    My short paper patched boolit fed just fine from my 303 magazine and shot very well. The patch stays on at the low velocities I was shooting.

    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check