Gas seals for .735 ball loads

[Kylongrifle]

Hi all. Im trying to work up some loads for .735 balls in my rifled barrels. Im looking for gas seals and i see most guys recommend the X12X seals but everywhere is out of stock(out of stock on almost everything right now ) All I can find is BPGS wads..Anyone try these? Is there another gas seal youd recommend? thanks
Oh and while your here does anyone know where I can find some fiocchi hulls in stock? or maybe cheddite? thanks

[longbow]

Not going to be a lot of help (like none) on your question but have a couple of comments that may be of use whatever gas seal you get.

When I started out with 0.735" RB's in smoothbore I used a cushion leg wad with petals cut off and found that the gas seal/cushion leg wanted to wrap around the ball due to lack of support at the edges. My solution was to add at least one or preferably two 1/8" nitro card wads under the ball.

Shortly after I abandoned the cushion leg and just cut the gas seals off Winchester wads then used a hard card wad column under the ball. That worked best for me. I tried fiber wads with no success.

In fact for most RB loads I've found that using a nitro card wad or two under the RB and a small scoop of COW or cornmeal on top of the nitro card wad then add the RB does the best job for me.

So, the point being is that a round ball does not provide any wad/gas seal support at the edges so best to add that to your wad column. My wad columns are like this:

- over powder plastic gas seal + one or two 1/2" hard card wads + one 1/8" nitro card wad + small scoop of COW or cornmeal (to fill under the RB) + RB then roll or fold crimp

I have not tried BPGS wads but they look to be a better version of a cut off gas seal. Since they are stackable that provides an option to make up space for proper crimp height... use one or two along with one or two nitro card wads to get the RB to correct height for crimp.

And for the record, cutting gas seals off wads also works quite well if you have no other option. If you can get the BPGS gas seals I'd say you are good to go.

Not sure what load data you are using but the 0.735" RB runs around 575 grs. depending on alloy so about 1 3/8" oz. My load data came from Precision Rifle's published date using "any straight walled hull", your favourite primer and from 36 gr. to 44 grs. of Blue Dot under a 600 gr. solid slug. That data is a little vague and primers do affect pressure quite a bit. Their top end loading produced 12,500 PSI so a little hot for my liking. I started at 36 grs. and went to 40 grs. but recoil in alight single shot was attention getting to say the least! I settled on 36 grs. to 38 grs. as my load. That proved to be accurate in both smoothbore and rifled gun for me. I can't provide much feedback on the rifled gun as it was borrowed and I only shot 15 rounds through it but groups ran about 2" at 50 yards shoulder fired from a bench and with me flinching a bit due to this following many other hard recoiling rounds.

I hope that helps even though I didn't address your question well.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, the BPGS works well. The only drawback is that there is a top and bottom, so you have to be sure which way you put them in. Also, and X12X is a more robust gas seal, providing a solid surface for support. I'll post a link below to some X12X wads by Precision Reloading. There are very, very minor differences from the BPI X12X, but for all purposes they are the same gas seal. If you couldn't find the X12X, the next best thing would be the BPGS. If that wasn't an option, you could do as suggested above, and cut them from shot wads. Cutting them from shot wads works very well, the only drawback being the time to do it. You can even do without a plastic gas seal. Pressures are lower, and you need more powder to compensate, but nitro cards are the original gas seals.


https://www.precisionreloading.com/c...p#!l=PR&i=GS12

[Maven]

Although I don't shoot slugs or RB's through my 12 ga., I do shoot quite a few of the latter through my 20 ga.flintlock trade gun with various "wads." Which brings me to the question I've been keen to ask: Have any of you tried tow wads as a gas seal? Have they worked for you? Btw, in some BP smoothbores, hand rolled tow wads make quite a [positive] difference in 50 yd. accuracy in guns which typically lack a rear sight. One of mine seems OK with them, but alas, the trade gun doesn't like them one bit (a patched RB is better). Just some food for thought....

[megasupermagnum]

Although I don't shoot slugs or RB's through my 12 ga., I do shoot quite a few of the latter through my 20 ga.flintlock trade gun with various "wads." Which brings me to the question I've been keen to ask: Have any of you tried tow wads as a gas seal? Have they worked for you? Btw, in some BP smoothbores, hand rolled tow wads make quite a [positive] difference in 50 yd. accuracy in guns which typically lack a rear sight. One of mine seems OK with them, but alas, the trade gun doesn't like them one bit (a patched RB is better). Just some food for thought....

I've never tried tow with smokeless. I'm thinking it would have the same problem as felt, and that being it doesn't seal well enough. Smokeless powder needs a decent seal to build pressure such that it will burn right. It isn't the stuff to be going way off in left field to play with. Black powder on the other hand doesn't really need any pressure to burn right. I've found even with just a thin felt wad to hold the powder in, and without any shot or ball, the stuff still goes off with a real bang. The problem I have with tow for muzzleloaders is that it isn't as convenient. The stuff I bought came in a bulk bag, which you then pulled apart, kind of rolled into a ball, and stuffed it down. For shot, I like card wads for a gas seal, they patterned better. For spacers, or under-ball wads, I prefer 1/8" thick wool felt myself. Cork has a lot of potential too, but that stuff is way more expensive than felt.

[longbow]

I've tried nitro card wads as gas seals under a wad slug in a shotcup I had previously cut the gas seal off. While it seems counterproductive to cut gas seals off wads to use under full bore slugs then use nitro card wads under a wad slug in the shotcup, I had lots of shotcups and lots of nitro card wads so figured I'd try it. Results were rather poor!

Can't recall details but since I only use Blue Dot and SR4756 for slugs it was one of those two powders under a wad slug of approx. 525 grs. I used 2 1/8" nitro card wads over the powder then hard card wad then shotcup with slug.

There was so much leakage that the shotcups were badly burned and stretched. Accuracy was poor. msm is right on when he says you need more powder to compensate. I knew there would be some blow by but the extent of the leakage was surprising!

Having said that, RanchDog came up with a slug load that performed very well for him using nitro card and hard card wads instead of plastic gas seal.

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Just my .02

I've tried the BPGS, X12X and using just the hard cards with fiber wads as LB has suggested. IMO, the hard cards and fiber wads proved to be just as good as the BPGS and the X12X. I guess there is something to the old school loading before all this plastic stuff.

Scott

[megasupermagnum]

In an old manual, if I'm not mistaken it might be the instructions with the Lee hand loader for 12 gauge, it was suggested that loads be reduced by 10% when going from nitro card/fiber wad to a plastic wad. I'm guessing this was info from the 60's. So we could assume it takes about 10% more powder to produce the same velocity/pressure with nitro cards. That was with fast target loads too. A slow powder like bluedot, and the % could be even higher for all I know. All I know for sure is that I have used nitro cards alone, and had decent results. I still prefer a plastic gas seal.

[bruce drake]

very neat thread and I'm following it for future updates.

Bruce

[Maven]

The problem I have with tow for muzzleloaders is that it isn't as convenient. The stuff I bought came in a bulk bag, which you then pulled apart, kind of rolled into a ball, and stuffed it down.

So true, mega- and thanks for the reply!