1909 mauser firing problem

[toallmy]

I finally finished reaming a short chamber replacement barrel for a Argentina mauser converting it to 308 Winchester this Sunday past . All week I looked forward to running a few rounds through it with jackets on them - this weakened to get it on target & try it out .
Sadly my entire day was a miserable failure after the first 2 shots at 50 yards just getting it on paper went rather smoothly . The third shot was to be the first shot at a 100 yards off the bench when I squeezed the trigger I heard a click not a bang . I cocked it again a few times trying to fire the cartridge before giving up and just ejecting the round to take a look at the primer ( it was a good firing pin strike ) so it should have fired , but the next 2 rounds did the same thing click & click , now I'm concerned . So I spent the rest of the day taking apart the bolt over and over trying everything I could to figure out what was going on - only getting the next 2 out of three rounds to fire .
I guess tomorrow I'm going to pull down a few rounds and try new primers in them but , here is a little information on my project so if you have any ideas please share them .

I full length resized a box of Winchester once fired brass trimmed , and cleaned the primer pocket .
Loaded 5 rounds with various charges in groups of 5 to get a idea of what to expect out of my new barrel .

I chose to use Winchester lg rifle primers I have that I use for my cast 30-30 loads with out any trouble in the past . I used my hand primer to seat the primers , the same way I have for years .

The rifle was a 765 x 53 sold through Interarms that I have put at least a 100 rounds through before taking the barrel off to rebarrel in 308 Winchester . Without a problem so the rifle has no history of firing problems .
I put in a Timmy trigger without the safety - using the safety on the bolt , but I used the Timmy trigger on the rifle with the previous barrel .
The firing pin seams to be fine , I have striped the bolt down several times its clean and well oiled all seams good , except for the rifle not firing .
So I think tomorrow I'm going to start out pulling down the rounds that didn't fire and reloading them with different primers .
Hopefully - any ideas would be appreciated but my battery is almost dead so I'm going to be offline for the night .

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m interested to hear about your results with new primers.

[405grain]

If your getting good firing pin strikes, and the rifle previously worked with different ammo, the first thing I would suspect is that you've got some bad primers. Because you just finished chambering a short chambered barrel, fired two rounds and are now having misfires, I'd recommend that you re-check your headspace just to eliminate that as a problem and to be safe. A couple of years ago I finished a short chambered a 223 and was firing it. Everything was working great until I noticed a shiny ring forming on the cases. I stopped shooting and checked things out. It turned out that a shaving of metal from doing the reaming had lodged in between one of the bolt lugs and the receiver recess and was getting flattened with each shot. I needed to set the barrel back a few thousandths and clean up the chamber.

[toallmy]

I had a few thoughts in line with you gentlemen one of my first thoughts was after the firing pin was headspace , I sent the headspace gauges back on Tuesday , but I did try putting a small piece of scotch tape on the base of a resized case to check the chamber - the bolt wouldn't close unless I really forced it .
It's possible I damaged the primers while seating them I suppose - being Win primers are softer generally then CCI primers , but I have used my round top lee hand primer for 30 years or more without incident . You get a good feel of the primer bottoming out in the primer pocket by hand . Out of habit I run my thumb over the base before placing the primed case in the reloading block .
I forgot to mention I used a small base die to full length resize the once fired cases . I tried the tape on the base the bolt wouldn't close on them . I hope I didn't over size them because I resized 900 cases with the setup .

My next approach is going to be pulling the rounds that didn't fire and try them with CCI lg rifle primers of a different batch .
If that doesn't work I guess I could try loading a few rounds with a light charge and a cast boolit in the rifling .
+ pay more attention to the primer strikes & not be so fast to try firing them again & again .....

[Cap'n Morgan]

Testing with a sized case and primer only will give a better idea of the primer strike. Also, if excessiv headspace, a telltale back out of the primer should be visible.

[toallmy]

I just came in from trying a couple rounds that I pulled and loaded in cases with different primers and they both fired so I'm going to set up at the bench to try a few more . Strangely I have been using the win primers in my 30-30 & 7x57 cast loads without any trouble over the summer ...... it's quite possible I damaged them while seating , but time will tell . Thank goodness I only loaded 25 rounds .

[Gtek]

Know anybody with a couple 308 rounds laying around, say five or ten or so. Many many years ago I had a bad run, was it me, the RCBS hand primer or the primers? Never did confirm, changed to new primers, stared harder at primer when seating and no problems since.

[toallmy]

I'm back my next trip out I had 3 in a row misfire with no strike on the primer at all not even a slight dent . So I pulled the Timmy trigger and put the original back 19 rounds fired without a issue .
I believe with me disassembling and resembling the rifle so many times I had somehow put the trigger in in a way to bind the firing pin that resulted in slowing the pin drop enough to effect firing . So I'll work on figuring that out , I'm just tickled everything worked .
At least I got it shooting & sighted in at a 100 , but now I'm going to change the scope to do a little more detailed shooting .
It's all for fun right

[GregLaROCHE]

Sounds like you’ve found the source of the problem.

[skeettx]

Congrats on your possible fix.
More to contemplate

1. Are you feeding the round from the mag or letting the extractor try to snap over the rim?
2. Are you having the bullet length set to max to hold the case back against the bolt?
3. Are you sure you have the bolt head screw all the way into the bolt body?

Just thoughts, good luck
Mike

[James Wisner]

To go over everything.

Timney trigger, which model ??, the Now Dropped Sportsman trigger would simply drop in on the receiver, BUT the Feather Weight model, sometimes requires that the sear slot in the tang of the receiver be lengthened for the Timney Feather Weight sear to properly fully drop all the way down away from the cocking piece.

Yes, triple check the headspace of the new barrel.

Has the bolt handle been changed from before to now, if so then the bolt handle may not be turning the full 90 degrees, and then causing the cocking piece to drag.

Look at your reloads another time, has the shoulder been set back by too much sizing, has the primer been crushed, etc.

Rule out any problems with the rifle first then look at your relaoding steps

JW

[toallmy]

Congrats on your possible fix.
More to contemplate

1. Are you feeding the round from the mag or letting the extractor try to snap over the rim?
2. Are you having the bullet length set to max to hold the case back against the bolt?
3. Are you sure you have the bolt head screw all the way into the bolt body?


Just thoughts, good luck
Mike

Ill start with
#1 I dropped in a single round follower for bench work so the bolt picks up the cartridge with the extractor holding the round while chambering . But I functioned the last few from the box just to make sure they would feed .
#2 no the loaded rounds were set at 10 thousand short of engaging the rifling .
#3 I am pretty sure .

[toallmy]

To go over everything.

Timney trigger, which model ??, the Now Dropped Sportsman trigger would simply drop in on the receiver, BUT the Feather Weight model, sometimes requires that the sear slot in the tang of the receiver be lengthened for the Timney Feather Weight sear to properly fully drop all the way down away from the cocking piece.

Yes, triple check the headspace of the new barrel.

Has the bolt handle been changed from before to now, if so then the bolt handle may not be turning the full 90 degrees, and then causing the cocking piece to drag.

Look at your reloads another time, has the shoulder been set back by too much sizing, has the primer been crushed, etc.

Rule out any problems with the rifle first then look at your relaoding steps

JW

I put a Timmey Featherweight Mauser 98 FN trigger in it , but I thought I had fired it with the original barrel and new trigger , but I can't be sure . This could be a issue - I'll find out because I just put the Timmy back in it .

[Hick]

If the shoulder in the chamber is a tiny bit long, the extractor will hold the case against the bolt well enough to fire some of the rounds, but not all. What happens is that with a case shoulder a little short of the chamber shoulder, the case moves slightly forward when the firing pin strikes-- just enough to soften the blow a little, causing some primers to fail to fire even though there is a strike mark. The result will be seemingly good strikes, but random failures to fire. I had the same problem with a CZ 527 trying to fire US 7.62 x 39 ammo in a European dimension (CIP) chamber. The good news is that once they have fired a few times the cases will conform to the chamber and, as long as you neck size, the problem will go away.

[elmacgyver0]

Whenever I build guns I use factory ammo to test them out.
Tends to eliminate some of the variables like did I screw up my reloads?
When I tested my FAL it would only work as a single shot, since I was using factory ammo I figured it must be something with the rifle.
Turns out I had the gas regulator in upside down, duh.

[EDG]

There have been several posts where the owner had just installed a new Timney trigger and discovered he had a problem.

[toallmy]

There have been several posts where the owner had just installed a new Timney trigger and discovered he had a problem.

I'm afraid this is going to become one also - I just walked in the house after trying the rifle out again today . Yesterday evening after the rifle fired 15-20 time perfectly with the original trigger installed I dropped the Timmy trigger back in it and put it up for the night , I just tried again with the Timmy trigger and no bang again - at least today the cocking piece don't drag it didn't drop at all . So now I at least know where to start .
I'm going to the archives for a while .........

[toallmy]

I opened up the sear slot a little more in front of the sear - it was a close if not touching . So close that a little twisting of the trigger mechanism could interfere with the sear being pushed down during firing .
I'll give it a shot in the morning hopefully more than one .

[waksupi]

You may want to check your firing pin protrusion. It should be between. .048 - .062

[toallmy]

I really appreciate all the helpful tips , I took the time to go through everything mentioned above several times , it seams to have been the sear slot needed a little metal removed . I just walked in the house from testing it with the Timmy feather weight trigger after removing just a small amount from the sear slot and all rounds fired perfectly .
Here's a bonus not wanting to blast away a bunch of jacket rounds that I loaded up in groups of 5 with various weights of powder to test . I decided to give it a shot with cast , because in the end , that is why I started this rebarrel project ( as a cast boolit shooter ) .
The only cast boolits I have cast that fit the neck of the 308 brass without the bottom lube grove loading below the neck exposing the powder to boolit lube was my trusty NOE 311-165 plan base I shoot out of my 30-30 . So I did a little fit and figuring to work out the overall length this morning . Stole my flaring die from the 30-30 set up to flair the cases , then the powder through die as well from the 30-30 setup so I could just drop the charges , along with my plinking charge of unique the last 3 rounds after ruff sighting in all touched at 50 yards .
This is going to be a blast
Thank you gentlemen for the help .