Using .303 Brit brass in a Krag?

[Krag 1901]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Low these many years ago I picked up a 1901 sporterized Carbine in a pawn shop. Actually the reason I bought it was for the Redfield aperture sight, because I'm a fan of M1/M14 and I thought it was cool. And for $75 it was cheap enough. Upon getting it home and fully inspecting it, I found that the stock was glassed and the action had severe rust damage below the magazine, probably due to poor storage. The bore was a sewer pipe and copper fouled up the kazoo! I wore out two or three bronze brushes and and a quart of Hoppes getting it cleaned enough to shoot.So I bought some Remington 180gr rounds and went to the range.

That was when I found it was a kicker. Now I had fired many thousands of M1 and M14 rounds when I was in Army so I knew what a full sized rifle could do to a shoulder. However while not too light a full bore 30-40 round is plenty to deal with in the carbine. What with the cost of factory 30-40 and the lure of other guns, I put it away for many years, loading my 20 rounds with 150 gr + H4895 occasionally.

About 20 years later I joined a local rifle club and began to shoot regularly, Mostly pistol and my 1917 Eddistone sporter. I had bought it for $18 from a pawnshop and got the head space adjusted at a gunshop for $25 and felt as a broke *** vet I had a pretty good deal. It shot like a 1917( good and true) and was heavy enough to soak up the 30-06 recoil pretty well.

The rifle club had a lead bullet silhouette shoot once a month and with the help of a couple of members I was introduced to lead bullets, got back into off hand shooting and got 50 rounds of ?Xfired 30-40 brass.

I bought .30 cal moulds and 10 pound pot and started casting, throwing lead down range at 25-200 yard animals. I found 100 rounds of Winchester 30-40 on Midway and was doing pretty well but the barrel of the Krag I felt was not doing as well as I thought it should that is when I found that CMP had new barrels by Criterion for sale and I could get a new barrel! Hooray, except I had to shoot a CMP match to qualify to buy from CMP. I talked my way into shooting my Krag, which was my only iron sighed rifle, and a few CMP matches which the Krag kept me out of the bottom of the class and got my cert for CMP and a new barrel.

So here I have a fresh modern .308 barrel and fresh bluing and new fibre optic front sight and Picitinny scout rail I was out to make Krag history! Except the new barrel was just about as accurate as the old sewer pipe, but copper and lead fouled less and seemed to improve with more rounds fired.

Along comes 2014 and reloading supplies were hard to find and I just gave up! I shot up my primers and powders and plinked with my 22s when I could find ammo for them. But stopped shooting much at all.

I had heard that .303 british could be used in the Krag easily but coudn't find any in the shops. I did get 10 .303 cases from the range officer and tried them and they seemed to work Okay. I ended up giving them to a guy at the range who had an old beat up Krag he inherited from his uncle who was South African and told him he had used .303 brass in lieu 30-40 unobtainium. THe guy wasn't going to shoot it much and thought it would sell his story about the old Krag.

Since .303 is a lot easier to get than 30-40 I was thinking about just buying some .303 and using it, no case trimming needed Hooray!
Lee has a collet neck size die for the 303 and that should save even more trimming and case prep.

So what do you Krag shooters think? Good idea or should I wait around for the odd availability of 30-40 brass?

I have found that the 314299 is the excellent bullet with the Lee 312-165 2R a good substitute for lower weight but good accuracy. I think due to the nose shape. My preferred powder is 4198 for lead and H-414 for J words.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Welcome to the Forum! Always nice to see another Krag shooter join up. Much has been written on the Forum in the past about using .303 British brass in place of .30-40 Krag, and a search of the site will probably turn up much of interest to you. I have several Krag rifles, and they can be somewhat individualistic in what they like to shoot, but generally speaking I've had my best luck with cast bullets in the 180-200 gr. weight range. I do use gas checks, and IMR 4895 powder---mostly. I do not use .303 British brass (except in several Lee Enfields) as I keep a sharp eye out for .30-40 brass and buy it when it's available. Yes, supply is sporadic, but not impossible. Every so often someone will sell some here on the Forum.

[quack1]

I was not looking for a Krag when I got mine. I just came across it at a price I couldn't pass up and the old Lyman peep mounted on it made it even better. I couldn't find any Krag brass, other than a few that had been fired an unknown number of times. I did find a few bags of new 303 Brit at a LGS, so got them. Ive been using them ever since without any problems. I anneal necks every 5 reloads and they seem like they just might last forever.
Lyman 311299 and 311291 shoot best in my gun. The 311291 mold I have had some damage in the gas check area so I reamed out the gas check shank and turned the mold into a plain base. I use red dot with the 311291 and 4227 with the 311299.

[Rich/WIS]

Have used it in my 1894 Krag sporter with good results. All you have to do is full length size the 303 in the 30/40 die. Cases are shorter than 30/40 but unless you want to crimp itis not an issue. The sporter had a barrel that was pitted in the grooves from chamber to muzzle but the top of the lands were clean. Liked the 311284 at 1500-1600 fps, and recoil was mild. My rifle had the old Redfield no drill peep sight as well which made it easy to for my old eyes to shoot.

[kens]

what about this??
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/764

I looked at the dimensions and I think .303 resize should be watched at the neck thickness, otherwise ok to full length size and use it
neck reaming may be required and watch that, a fat neck can run pressures up
the base/rim/body sizes are close enough to resize and use

[tdoor4570]

I have used a lot of 303 brass in the 5 Krags that we feed. I just anneal the necks, run them through the Krag dies ,load light charge and fire form . some 303 brass that I ran into I had to turn down the rims a little to get them to seat to be fired , but all in all that I converted shoot real well. My Krags seem to like the 311291, 311413 and the C309-180-R for cast and 180gr j-words. We have 4 1898's and 1 1894 that my son and I shoot.

[Kraschenbirn]

When I first got my '98 Krag, brass and loaded ammo were essentially 'unobtainium' so I annealed the necks of some .303 and ran them through a 30-30 die before fireforming. Finished cases came out just a touch short...kinda like forming 7.5x55 from .284 Win...but, otherwise, worked just fine. Since then, I've managed to accumulate a pretty fair stock of 'real' .30-40 brass and have formed the 'reformed' stuff back to .303 Brit. only losing a few cases in the process.

Bill

[MUSTANG]

Each year when "Hunting Season" ammo starts hitting the shelves; I look for factory that fits my old guns (30-40, 7x57, 8mm, .303). For last two years I have bought two boxes of factory 30-40 at about $35.00 per box and put them away for the Grandsons when they inherit my 30-40's. In the mean time, I pick up 30-40 brass out of the "Brass Bin" at a couple of LGS's that resell once fired (or multiple used - buyers risk) Brass. Probably have a few hundred 30-40 brass cases. Also have used .303 cases in the 30-40 with success.


Use a lot of WC860 (50BMG powder) and WC870/872 (20mm Vulcan powder) loads in the 30-40.

[brstevns]

Have use 303 brass in my 30/40 Krag Rem. RB with not having any problems.
My cousin shoots a Ruger #1 and uses 303 brass all the time.

[Streetwalker]

Interesting posts. I can well remember when we lovers of the .303 British round couldn't find .303 brass, we could always locate 30/40 Krag brass for fire forming and they always worked great.

[brstevns]

Each year when "Hunting Season" ammo starts hitting the shelves; I look for factory that fits my old guns (30-40, 7x57, 8mm, .303). For last two years I have bought two boxes of factory 30-40 at about $35.00 per box and put them away for the Grandsons when they inherit my 30-40's. In the mean time, I pick up 30-40 brass out of the "Brass Bin" at a couple of LGS's that resell once fired (or multiple used - buyers risk) Brass. Probably have a few hundred 30-40 brass cases. Also have used .303 cases in the 30-40 with success.


Use a lot of WC860 (50BMG powder) and WC870/872 (20mm Vulcan powder) loads in the 30-40.

What load are you using with the Wc872. Have 8lb I am waiting to use.

[uscra112]

Krag brass is everywhere you look. Midway, Grafs, Natchez, Midsouth.....and it's quality stuff......Hornady, Nosler, Winchester, Graf's house brand. I scored some Captech at a blowout price from Grafs in August.

[screwcutter]

Krag brass is everywhere you look. Midway, Grafs, Natchez, Midsouth.....and it's quality stuff......Hornady, Nosler, Winchester, Graf's house brand. I scored some Captech at a blowout price from Grafs in August.

I was at Sportsman’s Warehouse there was 14 boxes of 30-40 Remington 180gr factory on the shelf.

[6mm win lee]

...

So what do you Krag shooters think? Good idea or should I wait around for the odd availability of 30-40 brass?

...

Why wait? Ammoseek is your friend.

https://ammoseek.com/reloading/brass/30-40-krag

I would suggest you pickup ten bags and use one bag until the brass wears out before opening the next bag. That should last you ten years.

Or not.

[fgd135]

I started shooting my 1896 using .303 brass as I had a pile of once-fired brass but no .303 rifle, but no .30-40 brass. The .303 brass was given to me for recycling and I still use it even though I've got plenty of .30-40 brass nowadays.
The reformed .303 is used for "cat's sneeze" loads with various .30 cal cast pistol bullets and a few grains of Red Dot or Unique; the short necked re-formed cases work fine with the shorter pistol bullets.

[Krag 1901]

Thanks guys! Any thoughts about the .303 Lee Neck collet die and 30-40 brass? I did read a post where the guy said it worked fine. Anyone had experience. I use them for the .308 .223 and .30-06 seem to work great but wondered about the Krag.

I set up a Rem 582 .22 LR with a receiver sight to be able to practice cheaply and love it. But my Krag is my fav gun. I've already gone thru about 300 lbs of lead, mostly with my Krag and hope the covid will lapes soon so I can get out again.

Right now I'm in the fifth week of radiation after my cancer operation, so I guess I'll load up some ammo and get back on the line.

I hate to admit it, but I destroyed my bolt on the Krag after setting the velocity record with my Krag, (long story about a double charge, 3577 fps!) and had a new bolt fitted, but I find that I have trouble ejecting unfired rounds sometimes. I believe the extractor is just a few thousands too short in the new bolt to catch the rim, unless I fire the round. Been debating filing the extractor down a little to get it to catch on the rim.

[uscra112]

There are those of us who have done it, and those of who will do it (unless we quit reloading right now......

Good to know that your Krag didn't burst or anything.

Could the bolt recess in the receiver have been set back by the overload?

[444ttd]

its always nice to "talk" to a krag owner. unfortunately, mine is bubba-ed up. my great grandpap, grandpap, dad and late uncle used the krag and now i have it.

grandpap decided to change the stock


i decided to go back and i put on a "original" stock and a no drill redfield 102k aperture sight.


i've always used 30-40 brass(some of them are 50+ years old). i've loaded them about 7 or 8 or 9 times. two or three years ago, i have a bag of 50 pcs rem brass that i use too. i think i have 150 -200 cases, but i think a 100 new cartridges will last me a lifetime. the 303 British cases i have never used, but i hear good things about them being used for the 30-40.

i use a 165gr ranch dog(173gr actual) exclusively. i have killed 7 or 8 deer with it and my oldest son has killed 6 or 7 deer. my son has set a record(my record) being a 174 yard kill shot(laser range finder) and it was drt. my shots are 30-40 yards away, but i have killed a doe 150+/- yards away, also drt. come to think of it, all the deer i and son killed are drt.

my mom had breast cancer and i know all about your radiation. i had a bad stroke about 8 years ago but at least it got me to quit smoking and drinking!!!!! now if i'd just quit coffee and rifles.......

[444ttd]

There are those of us who have done it, and those of who will do it (unless we quit reloading right now......

Good to know that your Krag didn't burst or anything.

Could the bolt recess in the receiver have been set back by the overload?

the late great "Michael Petrov, collector/researcher of pre-war custom sporters, once took a U.S. Krag and tested it to destruction, to get a feel for just how strong a .30-40 Krag is. He loaded ever increasing charges of Bullseye pistol powder until the action came unglued. I regret I don't remember the exact charge that finally caused its demise, but it was unholy in nature- somewhere well over 20 grains (which if you know Bullseye in a rifle case would put it fairly into the "pipe bomb" category). After describing the whole experiment he dropped the punch line- he had ground the locking lug completely off and did the whole experiment with just the safety lug taking the brunt."

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...rs_and_One_Bar

i wish i could have met Mr Petrov.

[Krag 1901]

My oopsie was caused by inattention, I was getting down to loading a batch of Krag and set up my scale and dropped a charge in the first round, put it in the press, when I realized I had no bullits out! So set it up in the press, I dug out a can of sized, cked, and lubed 165 2Rs (or maybe Lee 309 200's) and poured some in a plastic dish and set it up next to the press. This took some time and I forgot I had loaded the powder, so I ran the measure, placed the bullet and rammed it home.
I'm generally very methodical about loading, I scale most every charge and load my 50 round boxes left to right top to bottom and shoot the rounds in that fashion too. However on that fateful day I shot the rounds in reverse order going right to left bottom to top, don't know why, but I did.

I generally shot on a Tuesday, the range is open all day and pretty free for getting a bench in the right spot out of the wind so my chrony doesn't blow over. I was going thru my rounds recording each group of ten and changing targets after each group or two and taking a picture of each target for my records. IIRCC I was getting around 1800 fps and good groups (under 2" or better @100) until I got to the last round.

When I touched off the last round it sounded different, noticeable recoil and ? No hole in the target anywhere!!!Checked the chrony and it said 3577 fps! I thought it "must be an error" but when I tied to open the bolt to clear the breech, there was no movement, not even a little!

Well I resulted in grabbing the rubber mallet from the range office an hammered the bolt, a lot, still no go. A cease fire was called and I still couldn't clear the breech. Some of the 'usual suspects" came over to lend a hand and finally we got the bolt open and the case was stuck. We got the range rod out and hammered on the case until the head came off. At least now the range was clear and normal order resumed.

The bolt lug was bent back a few degrees and had a small crack, the case head was smooshed out and the primer fell out, the pocket about twice the size, the head stamp was smeared and the case separated above the join. the case didn't separate until we had hammered it out, there was only a gas leak around the primer, so I'm pretty sure the Krag is pretty gas tight. The receiver was good and my smith had no trouble finding a new (used) bolt and had it up to snuff in a week or so.

I've shot a lot of rounds since then maybe 300-500 rounds and the only problem is the failure to extract an unfired round once in a while as the extractor doesn't catch the case every time. The extractor shows some file marks on the inner surface and so I think this was a problem at some time. I don't think that my smith did this when he fitted to new bolt as the bluing is still good from the reblueing he did in replacing the barrel.

444ttd, my stock is like your sporter stock, I think it was a Fajine (?) from the olden times. I'm not one to long for an original stock Krag with a Buffington sight. I like my sporter. One of the guys at the range got a 1899 rifle and I shot it, but not my cup of tea. Now an stock M1 is a different deal altogether!