45-70 405 gr jacketed over black powder

[fishingsetx]

Hello,

I inherited an Uberti Trap Door replica from my dad. I also inherited a case of 405 gr jacketed bullets and havent bought a mold as of yet. I'd like to load some up with black powder and give them a shot. I have a decent supply of ffg and a rather large supply of fffg. Just wanting to get an idea of the charge. I have read 70 grains is a pretty decent load, but I'd like some real world experience. Also, is there anything I need to be concerned about loading black powder cartridges. I've loaded a ton of smokeless and shot muzzleloaders for quite a while, but I've never loaded a cartridge with black powder.

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[GregLaROCHE]

It’s hard to fit 70 grains of BP in a .45/70 case. Original guns and some modern replicas have longer throats so bullets can be seated far out to allow you to get that much powder in. Depending on what you choose to load (wad,cards,grease cookies) the space in the case gets used up fast. A first step is to determine the max overall length cartridge your gun can take. Then read through stickies and threads to decide what combinations you want to charge your cases with. It’s not as simple as reloading smokeless powders, but that’s part of what makes it interesting. I’m sure others will contribute with what they have found works best for them and maybe even that particular gun. Good luck and enjoy BP. It’s a lot of fun.

[R-71]

I would say you can use the Jacketed bullets but there will be no Lube to keep the fouling soft unless you use a grease cookie. A grease cookie will take up powder space. Go to the Buffalo arms or Montana Bullet works and order some Lead bullets with BP lube for best results.

Is it a carbine or Rifle?

[indian joe]

I would say you can use the Jacketed bullets but there will be no Lube to keep the fouling soft unless you use a grease cookie. A grease cookie will take up powder space. Go to the Buffalo arms or Montana Bullet works and order some Lead bullets with BP lube for best results.

Is it a carbine or Rifle?

what he sez!!!

[fishingsetx]

I would say you can use the Jacketed bullets but there will be no Lube to keep the fouling soft unless you use a grease cookie. A grease cookie will take up powder space. Go to the Buffalo arms or Montana Bullet works and order some Lead bullets with BP lube for best results.

Is it a carbine or Rifle?

Loaded 12 this eve with 51 grains (by weight) of ffg black powder which let the bullet just touch the powder. Going to give them a shot tomorrow afternoon. When I load the next batch, I'll be sure to add some lubed patches.

By next time around, I hope to have a mold and some cast boolits.

Also taking the colt walker reproduction he had. Going to be a lot of smoke on the range!

It's a carbine.

My other problem is, I have 220 rounds worth of modern ammo for it and it is the only 45-70 I have. 140 of those are leverevolution. Normally I'd say that's a good problem to have, but I'm reading mixed results on the trap door repro and modern cartridges. Uberti's manual states it's good to 29,007 CUP and saami spec says standard factory ammo should be less than 28,000 CUP so in theory, I'm good. Theory and practice are two different things though!

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[rfd]

just using what you have on hand, because it is available right there, isn't always the better or right way to go, and there *may* be consequences.

it would do you best if the powder was drop tubed or the powder filled case vibrated - this will compact the powder - and then have at least some very light compression, which will insure there's no air space in the case 'tween bullet and powder (this compression should not be done with the bullet seating, but with a plug in a die - or a 7/16" piece of dowel will get the job done). other than that, i wouldn't load jkt'd bullets and possibly hafta deal with copper fouling, besides the fact that's not the bullet made for that firearm, which also begs the question of its diameter and the bore's diameter (have you cast the chamber?). certain guns almost demand certain cartridges that are built in a certain manner. a cheap lee 405 grain mould, flat or hollow based, would better serve a trap door.

[R-71]

I would avoid shooting that leverevolution ammo in the trapdoor, with the ammo situation right now you could easily sell it and replace it with brass and components.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest not shooting any jacketed .458 bullets in your TD as they are under sized. Suggest you read;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-and-Equipment

[Chill Wills]

My other problem is, I have 220 rounds worth of modern ammo for it and it is the only 45-70 I have. 140 of those are leverevolution. Normally I'd say that's a good problem to have, but I'm reading mixed results on the trap door repro and modern cartridges. Uberti's manual states it's good to 29,007 CUP and saami spec says standard factory ammo should be less than 28,000 CUP so in theory, I'm good. Theory and practice are two different things though!

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If you can. Slow down. Don't get in a rush to shoot the factory ammo.

Don't shoot the jacked bullets in this rifle and especially don't shoot the Leverevolution. They are worth to much to you sold for $$, the money can be put into cases, powder, primers and lead. In addition, the Leverevolution cases are short and not as good for reloading with cast bullets so really, they are not even good to shoot/empty for the cases.

You are getting good advice above.
Get your molds. Cast some bullets. LLube with BP lube and charge with Black Powder to start. Filling the case up with a slow pour through a funnel is plenty good enough to start. Fill it enough to have 1/16" to 1/8" powder compression (with the bullet) no wad and shoot. That is it to start. Nothing fancy.

You will be told not to compress with the bullet. And that is correct normally, but if you just kissed the powder level with the base of the bullet and a little more it will be fine.

Doing this requires the least stuff to start the new adventure and the least know-how. You might be surprised how well it works out.
You can kick it up a notch easily as you get some experience.

That is my two cents worth and what I would help you do if you were close by.

[indian joe]

If you can. Slow down. Don't get in a rush to shoot the factory ammo.

Don't shoot the jacked bullets in this rifle and especially don't shoot the Leverevolution. They are worth to much to you sold for $$, the money can be put into cases, powder, primers and lead. In addition, the Leverevolution cases are short and not as good for reloading with cast bullets so really, they are not even good to shoot/empty for the cases.

You are getting good advice above.
Get your molds. Cast some bullets. LLube with BP lube and charge with Black Powder to start. Filling the case up with a slow pour through a funnel is plenty good enough to start. Fill it enough to have 1/16" to 1/8" powder compression (with the bullet) no wad and shoot. That is it to start. Nothing fancy.

You will be told not to compress with the bullet. And that is correct normally, but if you just kissed the powder level with the base of the bullet and a little more it will be fine.

Doing this requires the least stuff to start the new adventure and the least know-how. You might be surprised how well it works out.
You can kick it up a notch easily as you get some experience.

That is my two cents worth and what I would help you do if you were close by.

Good advice ---all of it !!!!!!!!!

[fishingsetx]

Ok, first off, thanks for the replies!

Second off, this is a modern reproduction of a trap door, not an original. No way would I be shooting jacketed bullets through an original. The manual for my rifle says nothing about lead only nor does it mention any restrictions other than saami specs and less than 29,000 CUP.

I loaded 12 of the jacketed bullets just full enough to barely compress the powder and they shot pretty good. I wasnt looking for great accuracy, just to get a feel for the rifle and loading for it. I've been reloading, casting, shooting muzzleloader, and making black powder for 15+ years now so I understand the concerns. My main question was what did I need to look at when loading black powder cartridges and that has been answered here and more and I really appreciate it.

I think selling the modern ammo and jacketed bullets is a great idea and will probably be going forward with that. I have plenty of brass I've been pulling the bullets from (long story) so that wont be an issue.

I'm currently looking into which mold/molds I want to order for it but havent made any decisions yet. What would yall recommend getting that would make this endeavor a little easier/more fun? I also have several 45 Colt revolvers I may load some BP cartridges for so it wouldn't be just for the trap door.

There's just something about the whoumph and smoke that make shooting black powder so much more fun than smokeless! It's the cleaning afterward that's a killer!

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[rfd]

for cheap, there's the lee 459-405HB (hollow base), which is the original trap door bullet.

[jednorris]

Loaded bullets that get shook around let the powder settle. Make darn sure you do not allow air space between powder and bullet.