Alliant Reloader 7 .44-40 load

[Savvy Jack]

I shot my loads today.
23.4gr RL-7 240gr LRN 1,320fps
23.4gr RL-7 240gr SWC 1,249fps
6.6gr TrailBoss 200gr BigLube 950fps

I was not able to zero in my scope very well and forgot to bring along the bore cleaner items. After 15 shots of trailboss I just did the best I could. Started out at 25 yards and was able to adjust the scope for 1/2 groups with TrailBoss and the 200gr BigLubes. Couldn't get the 240LRN to zero in. 100yards Trailboss was not bad so I moved on up the the 240gr SCW. The SCW were able to cycle through my Marlin with no troubles. I could not tell where I hit so I shot all three without any adjustments. Later found they hit the top left corner of my 11 1/2x8 notebook paper target with a 1/2 group. Certainly worth trying again!! My 200gr JHP 2400s (did fine and I was able to hit the 200yard 14x14 gong with my last shot, shot #27 wit no bore cleaning. The problem is me not the rifle, scope or loads. I tried some 180gr JHPs with 2400 but the velocities were from 1,100 fps to 1,600 fps. I think the battery may have been dying...been in there well over a year. Lets just say I was unprepared for today!! I am happy with it and look foreword to trying it again when I have more time to zero in the scope.

To conclude I noticed that the RL-7 certainly produces less pressures than the 20grs of 2400 and the velocities were closer together than the 2400 results. I am very happy with my results with the RL-7 powder as well as the 240gr SWC.

[9.3X62AL]

Savvy Jack--

20.0 grains of 2400 is far more powder than I would run in my old '73 with the 200 grainers--14.5 grains was my top load, which gives factory-load results--in the 1100 FPS ballpark.

One factor not specifically mentioned in this thread that bore heavily on the earlier work pioneered by W30WCF and followed by me.......that the 23.0-24.0 grain loads of RL-7 provided ANOTHER benefit--powder column support for the boolit. Lyman #427098 has no crimp groove, and was designed to "ride" atop a powder column of black powder to prevent bullet telescoping as the cartridges shunted down the tubular magazine enroute to the chamber.

One of the side tracks on my route to success was to try The Holy Black behind some Lee 200 grain castings. In modern W-W cases, 35.0 grains of Goex 3F was about all I could fit into a casing under the boolit, this with about 1/10" of compression. I hand-lubed 20 bullets with SPG, crimped the cases around the boolit ogive, and tried 'em out.

Not too spectacular. The bore was fouled out by Round #5, as Round #6 installed itself sideways in the target paper at 50 yards, well off-center. Some combination of inadequate lube capacity and Goex's lackluster combustion properties turned the barrel into a crusty sewer pipe. Maybe more lube and better powder would alter these outcomes, dunno.

I secured a SAECO #446 mould soon thereafter, which includes a larger lube capacity AND a decent crimp groove along with a nose form amenable to levergun feeding needs. This boolit performs well in both the 44-40 and in the 44 Magnum Win 92 with smokeless fuels, so problems are largely over.

[Savvy Jack]

Savvy Jack--

20.0 grains of 2400 is far more powder than I would run in my old '73 with the 200 grainers--14.5 grains was my top load, which gives factory-load results--in the 1100 FPS ballpark.

One factor not specifically mentioned in this thread that bore heavily on the earlier work pioneered by W30WCF and followed by me.......that the 23.0-24.0 grain loads of RL-7 provided ANOTHER benefit--powder column support for the boolit. Lyman #427098 has no crimp groove, and was designed to "ride" atop a powder column of black powder to prevent bullet telescoping as the cartridges shunted down the tubular magazine enroute to the chamber.

One of the side tracks on my route to success was to try The Holy Black behind some Lee 200 grain castings. In modern W-W cases, 35.0 grains of Goex 3F was about all I could fit into a casing under the boolit, this with about 1/10" of compression. I hand-lubed 20 bullets with SPG, crimped the cases around the boolit ogive, and tried 'em out.

Not too spectacular. The bore was fouled out by Round #5, as Round #6 installed itself sideways in the target paper at 50 yards, well off-center. Some combination of inadequate lube capacity and Goex's lackluster combustion properties turned the barrel into a crusty sewer pipe. Maybe more lube and better powder would alter these outcomes, dunno.

I secured a SAECO #446 mould soon thereafter, which includes a larger lube capacity AND a decent crimp groove along with a nose form amenable to levergun feeding needs. This boolit performs well in both the 44-40 and in the 44 Magnum Win 92 with smokeless fuels, so problems are largely over.

All my loads were shot through my Marlin.

23.4gr of RL-7 did not make a full case load and the was still air between powder and the base of the bullet. I could shake it and here powder tumble back and fourth.

I do have some other bullets as well,
Lyman 427098 210gr
Accurate 430210B 210gr
Accurate 430215C 215gr
NOE 432-200 217gr

All sized 429 with BP lube. I don't have any smokless lube right now.

[Savvy Jack]

Tried some RL-7 in my large frame 44-40 revolver with various bullets and its a no go which I am sure you guys already knew. between 800 and 850fps from a 7 1/2 barrel. Just not enough length to get any power. Accuracy at 50ft was icky!

[9.3X62AL]

The Marlin 94 or the Winchester 92 in 44-40 WCF provides a much wider safety margin for pressure experimentation than does the 73 Winchester. About 12 years back, I had a chance at a Marlin 94 in 44-40 NIB for $400......shoulda/woulda/coulda.

I have zero experience with the 44-40 in a revolver, but wouldn't mind having one--either a Uberti clone, or perhaps a BisHawk Ruger 44 Mag with swap cylinder. One o' these days, maybe.

[w30wcf]

......23.4gr of RL-7 did not make a full case load and the was still air between powder and the base of the bullet. I could shake it and here powder tumble back and fourth........

Jack, thank you for the range report. My newest container of RL 7 is the one with the Yellow label. Previously, I was using powder from containers with the orange label (plastic container).

23.5 grs of either powder is a capacity load with the 240 gr Magma bullet which seats deeper than the 240 gr SWC. In fact, if I don't settle the powder, the bullet will compress the powder slightly.

A month or so ago I tested a capacity load of RL 7 (yellow label) under the Lyman 427098.
Average velocity in the Marlin Cowboy 24" barrel......
Federal 150 primer - 1,442 f.p.s.
Federal 155 primer - 1,485 f.p.s.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

.......One of the side tracks on my route to success was to try The Holy Black behind some Lee 200 grain castings. In modern W-W cases, 35.0 grains of Goex 3F was about all I could fit into a casing under the boolit, this with about 1/10" of compression. I hand-lubed 20 bullets with SPG, crimped the cases around the boolit ogive, and tried 'em out.

Not too spectacular. The bore was fouled out by Round #5, as Round #6 installed itself sideways in the target paper at 50 yards, well off-center. Some combination of inadequate lube capacity and Goex's lackluster combustion properties turned the barrel into a crusty sewer pipe. Maybe more lube and better powder would alter these outcomes, dunno.......

Al,
Definitely a bullet that holds more lube is the answer with Goex. Even with the 427098, which holds more lube than the Lee bullet, the most rounds that I could get with Goex before the 24" barrel fouled out was 10-12. On the other hand, Swiss would run 50 rounds with the 427098 (most shot in a row) and accuracy remained 1st rate.

A couple of years ago I experimented with a larger lube capacity bullet by machining away a portion of the middle driving band on the 427098. I had tried the Mav-D "big lube" and that worked ok with Goex but I wanted a bullet that would provide better groups at extended ranges. Besides, I felt that the Mav-D held more lube than needed for the 24" trip.

The 427098 shot well at 100-300 yards so I wanted a bullet with the same nose profile but with the ideal lube capacity to run trouble free for many shots with goex. As I result of my testing I worked with Accurate Mold on the design which became the 43-215C. Thankfully, it has proven to perform as intended.

If you would like to try some, send me a pm. Another option would be to load 8 grs of RL7 in the case first followed by b.p.
That will keep the Goex b.p. fouling to a minimum.....

w30wcf

[Savvy Jack]

John,
I'll try a capacity load with the 427098 with CCI350 primers in my revolver and see what happens. That could push it to 900 fps and increase the accuracy.

[9.3X62AL]

Lotta good info above, guys. Appreciate it mucho!

I'm not likely to re-try the holy black anytime soon, John. I've had decent accuracy with SAECO #446 using smokeless, and it has more lube capacity than the Lee or the stock Lyman #427098. If I try BP again in this caliber, it will start with Swiss 3F--lead/tin alloy--and BP-specific lubes like SPG. There is a nice lube star at the muzzle after smokeless and Javelina Alox/BW are fired. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And--I ordered a Uberti Cattleman "Pasta SAA" today in 44-40.

[Savvy Jack]

9.3, can I call ya AL?

Out of about 35 targets I have logged, I can only get three to group on the bulls eye for my 44-40 revolver with smokeless. I want to see if I can get any to do that with RL7.

Attachment 55811Attachment 55812Attachment 55813

[Savvy Jack]

Attachment 55995

I failed to include that I used a scope.

Hi-Lux
HPML Muzzleloader
Toby Bridges Signature Series
TB-ML39x40

[9.3X62AL]

"Al" is just fine, sir.

I'm going to run a "tale of the tape" on the Uberti's internal dimensions before doing any shooting with it, hoping to save some steps ahead of time in terms of boolit diameter vs. OEM specs. Then comes brass specs and chamber relationship, with boolit seated. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The BEST would be the ability for the carbine and the revo to share ammunition, a thing my 32-20s can't quite accomplish with best accuracy.

[w30wcf]

Jack,
Nice shooting! That looks to be a very good load with the 240 gr bullet (not for '73's though). Nice and consistant.

w30wcf

[Savvy Jack]

Jack,
Nice shooting! That looks to be a very good load with the 240 gr bullet (not for '73's though). Nice and consistant.

w30wcf

Thanks.

Correct, nothing over the 12,000 pressures to be used in my 73'

[9.3X62AL]

Just looking through these 44-40 threads again tonight, since I snag the 44-40 Pasta Colta tomorrow morning. This will be fun.

[Savvy Jack]

One thing I have noticed about my Uberti revolvers is that the cylinder walls are not smooth. When the pressures begin to go up, the cylinder wall rings begin to be seen on the brass. I'll try and post some photos. No deformations, just something like a smudge ring.

[Fotis]

What is the best primer to use with RL-7 loads in the 1873??????

[9.3X62AL]

What is the best primer to use with RL-7 loads in the 1873??????

I have used CCI 300 (Large Pistol) in both the levergun and wheelgun. No issues with priming.

[Outpost75]

Here are some 100-yard targets from my Marlin 1894S with 38" twist Microgroove barrel in .44-40.
Also some 25-yard revolver targets with 43-230G and same charge. There is some unburned powder when using RL7 in the revolver, but velocities are normal and the loads shoot well. I use Starline cases and Winchester LP primers with bullets sized to .430".

Attachment 190084Attachment 190085
Attachment 190089
Attachment 190086Attachment 190088Attachment 190087

[Fotis]

I have used CCI 300 (Large Pistol) in both the levergun and wheelgun. No issues with priming.

Thank you!