If unable to find RL7, the same volume to fill the case with 1/8" compression using either IMR or H4198 also works well in the STRONG actioned rifles, Marlin 1894, Winchester 92, Eibar El Tigre, and Rossi clones, as well as the Ruger Vaquero and S&W 544, but NOT for Winchester 1873s, Colt SAA or clones.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
I'm curious why so many folks have so much trouble with crimping the #42798 bullet over small charges of powder that don't fill the case. I never have a problem. I also use the Magma 225gr bullet, crimping it AHEAD of the crimping groove to get a short enough O.A.L. to get 14rds into the magazine of my 30+yr old UBERTI 1873 Rifle. The Magma .428/225gr bullet was a fortunate buy, a gun shop closed and they were left over from a special order from a fellow Cowboy Shooter who unfortunately passed before he could pick them up. $500 for 20,000 bullets. This was way back when you could buy 500 bullets for $20.
It still bothers me a bit to "profit" from another Cowboy's passing.
I never have bullets "telescope" back into the cases in the mag.
I think my lack of problems can be traced directly to the OLD set of LYMAN black box dies made in the early 1960's.
And I seat & crimp at the same time.
I don't know why this die crimps the way it does, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.
It works just as well in my other .44WCF Rifles, Carbines & Handguns.
Last edited by Walks; 07-28-2018 at 01:34 AM.
I HATE auto-correct
Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.
My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.
SASS #375 Life
Old thread ,but new interest,, I'm using the same bullet mould as Walks ( lyman # 427098 ) mine cast out at .217gn. w/ 11-12 bhn . From what i'm reading I can use 23.7 + - grs. of H-4198 in my Rossi 92 44/40 w/ 20" barrel ,,, that's up to the base of " bullet's ". " 75 " says " fill the case " ??? I shoot H-4198 in my 40/60 w/200gr. cast , very ,very accurate ( 100 yds. ) . I also seat and crimp at the same time( RCBS 3- die set ). Would like to know about how far ya'll are shooting .
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .
Pending "numbers" entered into Quickload using 23.7gr of IMR-4198
(For conversation use only)
Bullet Length - .640
Case Length - 1.297
AOL - 1.582
Weight -217gr
H2O - 41.20 case volume
Quickload Program Results
23.7gr = 17,439 PSI (CIP)
MAX = 15,954 PSI (CIP)
"Should Be" fine in the 92'
NOTE***
SAAMI's MAX TESTING METHOD PRESSURES
CUP Max = 13,000
PSI Max = 11,000
CIP's MAX TESTING METHOD PRESSURE
PSI MAX = 15,954
If you get a chance, try running the simulation again at 22 grs. of IMR4198. I've shot that load with good results.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Hey Savvy ,, sorry don't know Quickload Program ,,, my AOL is running at 1.590-.593 ( 44/40 ) ,, so to stay within MAX Pressure do you recommend I back-up maybe 3-4 grs. ??? I really like the way my 40/60 works w/ H-4198 ( 27.6grs. ) ,, lite recoil ,, so far 100 yds. is the longest i'v shot so far ,, would like to use some 240grs, in both rifles ,, if feasible .
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .
75 ,, I don't shoot SASS ,, just paper or steel plates ,, I started to just load 22grs. I have loaded 5 rds. w/ 23.7 of H-4198 to try , and 5 w/ 6.9 of Trail Boss ,, sized to .428 hope to get to shoot tomorrow . Thank's for the help ,, both you and Savvy .
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .
I always recommend staying inside MAX pressure but......I seldom do...."so yes, back off a few gr." 23.0gr should drop pressures to 15,550 pending actual measurements. 23gr should not be enough to touch the bullet base so make sure you have good tight neck retention and a good crimp.
I need all measurements listed to be somewhat accurate but yours will get me close.
I loaded up 6 rounds of H-4198 but the input measurements are the same so I just upload in IMR-4198 data. H-4198 usually runs a tad hotter than IMR-4198 with these loads according to Quickload.
My loads of H-4198 took 26gr to touch the bullet base of the 427098 in order to crimp right on the top edge of the driving band but not over the top of the driving band as one normally does. That load should be 22,202 PSI CIP (22,047 for IMR) and I run it in my Marlin.
Outpost, using the same basic measurements and using 22.0gr of IMR-4198.....we are looking at about 13,500 PSI CIP, well below CIP max pressures. Quickload also shows that only about 47% of the powder is burned....typical for rifle powders.
USE AT OWN RISK
DO NOT USE IN REVOLVERS OR CATEGORY I RIFLES SUCH AS THE WINCHESTER 73' yadda yadda yadda
Savvy went out to shop took measurements ( just to be sure ). I crimp same place ,, top edge ,,.
Bullet Length- .638
case length- 1.295
OAL length- 1.592
Wright - .217grs.
H20 ??
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .
Finally !!! slipped off to the local shooting hole ,, shooting a Rossi src 20" barrel . I think the reason their called shooting " ranges " ( at least for me today ) is because my shot's ranged all over the place !!
5rds. 217grs. .428 dia. 23.7 grs. of H4198 ,, shot 12" low @ 100yds. TOO STOUT !! excess powder in barrel
5 rds. 217grs. " 23.0 grs. " "" raised back sight to 4th notch raised shot to center ,, ex-powder in barrel .
4rds. " " 6.9 grs. TB ( 100yds. ) on center .NO powder in barrel !!
1 rd. " " " " " ( 50 yds. ) Bulls eye ( only one of the day ) NO powder in barrel .
7rds. 200grs. " 7.1grs. " ( 100yds ) on center ( no bulls ) No powder in barrel
Savvy ,, 23.7 I believe was just a little to stout ,, for me ,, will try 22grs. next time. The H-4198 also left powder in my 40/60 w/ 200gr. bullet's.
Have read all of this thread and RL-7 is starting to get my attention ,, .
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .
Glad you got a chance to try it out.Originally Posted by Hootmix
Using rifle powders in the 44-40 is not cost effective "powder for powder". I did mention above, I think, that only abouy 40% of the powder is burned. The use of rifle powders is not exactly the "efficient" way to go. I simply just like using rifle powder in a rifle cartridge for both rifle and revolver.
I did get to the range this morning. Was able to shoot 26gr of H4198 in both rifle @75 yards and revolver (44 magnum frame) @ 25 yards. I have yet to properly note the targets but here is what we have.
26gr H-4198 (exceeds SAAMI MAX PRESSURES)
Outpost's design cast bullets - Accurate Mold's 43-230G 235gr sized .429
Starline Brass
CCI-300 primers
Case - 1.292
Bullet - .647
AOL - 1.598
Seat Depth - .341
Est CIP Pressure - (MAX = 15,954 psi)
19,356 psi @ 40.00 H2O (Case Volumetric Measurements)
23,138 psi @ 41.40 H2O (Case Volumetric Measurements)
TARGETS
Left - Marlin 1894CB with scope @ 75 yards
Avg. 1,444fps with 1 1/2" 4 shot group
Right - Uberti 44 Magnum Frame "Buckhorn" 7 1/2" Barrel with 44-40 cylinder @ 25 yards
Avg. 992fps with 3 1/4" 4 shot group @ 25 yards
Attachment 228027
Ignore shot placement because the scope is set up for a different load recipe. The revolver is POA but my eyes.......
Rifle used a Caldwell forearm and butt stock rest. Revolver used a Lee Machine Pistol rest but was not clamped down.
Last edited by Savvy Jack; 09-29-2018 at 01:35 PM.
Hootmix......I forgot what all was listed in the topic but my best groups yet in the rifle is a case capacity load (bullet base touches and sits on top of powder) of Reloder 7 and the following.
All inside a 4" Group @ 100 Yards. Pressures estimated between 17,500 and 18,500 psi CIP respectively between the two different grain weight bullets.
Target #187 Rifle, 20 shots @ 100 yards
Attachment 228029
Target #188 Rifle, 17 shots @ 100 Yards THIS is my go-to load and is what my scope is zeroed in for.
Attachment 228028
Excellent load for White Tail Deer in the strong action Marlin!!
PS:
I tried a hefty 20gr of 2400 today as well in the magnum revolver. This is what it reminded me of and I have no desire to do it again. The 44 Mag does the same thing and its monstrous!
Attachment 228038
Last edited by Savvy Jack; 10-04-2018 at 09:25 PM.
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