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Thread: Alliant Reloader 7 .44-40 load

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w30wcf View Post
    A capacity load of Reloader 7 under the historical 215 gr. 427098 bullet in the .44-40 24" barrel tripped the screens at an average velocity of 1,367 f.p.s. with very good accuracy.

    w30wcf
    I have discovered that 25gr of current productions of RL is a case capacity load for both my 43-210B and Hornady 240gr SWC-HP.

    23gr produced an avg 1,337 fps out of my 24" Marlin
    25gr produces and avg of 1,425 fps

    Ironically the seating depth of the Hornady 240gr SWC-HP is about the same as the 43-210B so 25gr is also a case capacity load.

    25gr and 240gr bullet = 1,425 fps......just over max psi
    25gr and 210gr bullet = 1,424 fps......just under max psi

    I said I was done with RL-7 testing but I think I will try both loads now at 100 yards at some point in the future.

  2. #42
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    guess I look at like this. If I had a bunch of re7 I couldn't find a proper use for I might try it. But I sure wouldn't go buy it specifically for the 4440 or any handgun. Just doesn't make economic sense to use re7 when you can get the same results with half the charge weight of unique ect. Great powder in the35 rem 3030 444 and 4570 though.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  3. #43
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    The whole purpose is to replicate full case/low pressure curve loads....and for me.....the original style bullet sits on top of the powder so it does not telescope back into the case while inside the rifle magazine. The Lyman 427098 does not have a crimp grove and is crimped over the forward driving band. Only keeps the bullet from coming out, not backing in. To make you cringe even more, only about 65% of the powder is burned It is also about using slower (I didn't say slow) burning rifle powders rather than faster pistol powders and taking a chance on a double charge and blowing up the fine firearm. The other reason is to be able to use the Lyman 310 hand tool "in the field" and not have to worry about poor crimps...refer to my first sentence. The 240gr bullet is perfect for this application. For the Marlin, no measuring tool needed....fill the case so the bullet slips in by hand to the crimping desired depth and crimp. Technically I don't even need the bullet seating plug. Just the expander and crimp. SOOOooooooo many options so little time.

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    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 12-07-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Savvy Jack sums up the rationale for Re-7 usage in this application (and in 32/20 WCF as well)--no crimp groove in either #427098 or in #311008, so the bullet seats against the powder column to resist "telescoping" during the shunting movement through the tube mag of a levergun--a crimp can wrapped around the bullet ogive to secure it in place against creep-out during revolver recoil. SAECO's crimp groove in #446 solved Lyman's design flaws, or at least acknowledged that black powder has smokeless competition--120 years along.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    yeap....I also have the 43-215C which is a replica of the 427098 but has a crimp groove and large lube groove if one chooses to use black powder.
    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-215C-D.png

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    Accurate 43-215C - Being a traditionalist, I decided that I wanted a bullet that would exactly match the original .44-40 bullet nose profile and would carry enough lube for the 24” trip many times accurately using standard Goex black powder. In addition, I had found that the original nose profile is best for down range accuracy (100+ yards) which is one of the things I like to do.~w30wcf
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post3088182
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 12-08-2017 at 12:14 AM.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    A couple bullets I've been using in both the .44 Magnum and the .44-40 are Accurate 43-230G and 43-230EB.

    Attachment 209085Attachment 209086

    The 230G is a double-crimp-groove design which enables you to seat the bullet out in the .44 Special, or Ruger .44 Magnums to exploit their greater cylinder length to get greater case capacity. The 230EB is based on John's proven 43-215C design, but as bevel base added to bump the weight up a bit. I've gotten good accuracy with this bullet using 33-35 grains of Goex 3Fg and Confederate Army Lube" which is equal parts of Goya Manteca (unsalted filtered lard) and beeswax.

    Ditto on the 24-25 grains of current RL7 for both bullets, depending on seating depth and case capacity.

    Attachment 209084 Attachment 209087

    At left, a ten-shot, 100-yard group with Marlin and hunting scope. At right a 5-shot group fired with simple open sights, .44-40 Rossi with 43-230EB and black powder.
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  7. #47
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Thanks for chiming in Outpost....I was beginning to feel like I was in a ghost town.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Ya know I think I still have some left over you sent me several years ago, I will look and load some up if I do.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    25gr RL-7 Accurate Mold 43-215C
    Melted, cast, sized, lubed and loaded all in a snowy North Carolina afternoon!!!

  10. #50
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Accurate Mold

    43-230G left and the 43-215C right

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    So many loads, so little time!!!

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  12. #52
    Boolit Bub
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    Al, 3.0 5744 under 26.5 Goex FFG shoots all day clean with the Lyman 427098 in my 1894 marlin.. It is a fun load to shoot and will usually stay in 1.5" at 50 yds. I use lyman gold lube but SPG works as well

  13. #53
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    By almost accident today I almost replicated Doc Pardee's 1875 30 shot 4" Group at 110 yards but with smokeless. Well almost

    For the full story, click here: https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...-19-March-2018


    Using Acme Bullet Company's 200gr hard cast .430 lead bullet, I inadvertently grouped 14 shots into a 4" circle at 100 yards. After a few shots (from group 1) I made a slight scope adjustment and shot group 2. I superimposed both groups on a sheet of paper and got the following results.

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    28gr Reloder 7 1,556fps avg. (+P loads) Marlin 1894CB
    (Not intended for Winchester 73' type rifles and revolvers)

    Doc Pardee's group is much tighter so 15 more shots from my loads could make the group bigger or even smaller!! We all know he used Black Powder..........I was using hot smokeless loads

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    Has anyone tried this powder with psb as a filler? I say because my 73 Winchester, 38WCF has an oversize neck. I've been using it with IMR 4227 and great results. Works in my gun with no pressure signs at all and shoots very accurate. Maybe NOT yours, start careful. Just a thought for another possible powder I'd like to try.

  15. #55
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    I just returned from the range and was shooting a Win 1892 44-40 with a new .4286 barrel 1-28 twist .Half the range was underwater so 50 meters will have to do.A 24gr dose of RE#7 /Win brass /Win LP primer under a 220gr FN .430 cut .680 for 3 shots off the bench.Velocity unknown but likely around 1400fps from a 24" pipe. A load of 25 + 23gr was acceptable but this is the sweet spot.
    Last edited by Pioneer2; 03-24-2018 at 02:33 PM.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer2 View Post
    I just returned from the range and was shooting a Win 1892 44-40 with a new .4286 barrel 1-28 twist .Half the range was underwater so 50 meters will have to do.A 24gr dose of RE#7 /Win brass /Win LP primer under a 220gr FNGC .430 cut .680 for 3 shots off the bench.Velocity unknown but likely around 1400fps from a 24" pipe. A load of 25 + 23gr was acceptable but this is the sweet spot.
    great news to hear!!!! Hey, what bullet mold is that from?

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    great news to hear!!!! Hey, what bullet mold is that from?
    I just read through this thread from way back to now - duplicating blackpowder ballistics with full case loads of RE7 ---etc etc etc ----have you blokes not heard of blackpowder ?? We can get it in the back end of Aussieland - cant be that hard to find !!! so whats going on ? Seems also that nobody has heard of duplex loading ? or is that a taboo subject for some reason - cant be a safety issue! its a heck of a lot safer deal than foolin round with off patent smokeyless loads ----3 grains of 4227 under the black in small cases and 5 grains in 45-70 size brass - it will get about 100fps increase over the straight black - with half decent lube boolits you can shoot all day without fouling out - works ok in 73 actions and on up. ......Or is this just a lot of guys chasing their tail in order to avoid cleaning their gun at the end of a days shooting???? I feel like I missed something in the translation here.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Since you quoted me....I will reply

    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    I just read through this thread from way back to now - duplicating blackpowder ballistics with full case loads of RE7 ---etc etc etc ----
    have you blokes not heard of blackpowder ??
    Why yes, yes we have!!

    We can get it in the back end of Aussieland - cant be that hard to find !!!
    Good for you! Good stuff!!

    so whats going on ? Seems also that nobody has heard of duplex loading ? or is that a taboo subject for some reason- cant be a safety issue!
    Probably don't hear much about it because folks either don't do it or don't talk about it....just like everything else, screw up, forget what step you're on, have a brain fart and it can become disastrous.

    its a heck of a lot safer deal than foolin round with off patent smokeyless loads ----3 grains of 4227 under the black in small cases and 5 grains in 45-70 size brass - it will get about 100fps increase over the straight black
    Glad that works for ya!

    - with half decent lube boolits you can shoot all day without fouling out - works ok in 73 actions and on up.
    Nice to know

    ......Or is this just a lot of guys chasing their tail in order to avoid cleaning their gun at the end of a days shooting????
    This topic is about Reloader 7, not black powder....if you want to learn about hitting steel targets with black powder out to 300 meters, visit this link:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Powder-Journey same author as this topic

    If you want more information about what John knew about black powder and the 44-40, look here:
    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca....com/john-kort

    I feel like I missed something in the translation here.
    Yeap, you missed the entire point or could certainly be a translation problem

    The whole point of using Reloader 7 in the 44-40 is to be able to use a smokeless load rather than black powder and get equal to or better performance. As can be seen from the links I posted, black powder is not the only option to get original black powder performance from this great cartridge. Hope that translates!!!!!
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 03-23-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    The mold used by a commercial caster was NOE ............not sure which one?

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    Since you quoted me....I will reply




    Yeap, you missed the entire point or could certainly be a translation problem

    The whole point of using Reloader 7 in the 44-40 is to be able to use a smokeless load rather than black powder and get equal to or better performance. As can be seen from the links I posted, black powder is not the only option to get original black powder performance from this great cartridge. Hope that translates!!!!!
    Jack - seein you enjoyed dismembering my last post - maybe you would like another go.
    I wasnt picking on you just hit quote instead of reply - anyway - you missed the point of my post. I get the aim of what is doing here just am honestly curious as to what drives so many guys to take so much trouble to not use black powder - theres a long list of possibilities - most of em we could cross off easily - particularly when we insert the caveat of equal performance - incidentally I like RE7 - used it to good effect in a 375 Big Bore and recently in 32/20 and 357 mag in lever guns.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check