Ballard Pacific .40-85 Everlasting

[Green Frog]

Bingo! That’s the one I want for my 22 cal Franken-Ballard. It’s odd that the pre-Marlin Ballards often had the loop type lever, then the closed loop (Pacific-style) levers came along, followed by the “last S” style found so commonly on the basic models. I guess the last style made for more comfortable shooting, but the Pacific type just looks so good!

I’ve just barely missed a couple on fleaBay over the years but still don’t have one.

Froggie

[marlinman93]

Loop levers were common throughout all Marlin Ballard year of manufacture, if the gun was a pistol grip receiver and stock. Never made a straight grip loop lever, which kinda puzzled me since Marlin made many straight grip loop lever repeaters. I would have thought it could be a neat option, and easily done by them.
I personally love the pistol grip, loop lever Ballard models, but even more so the ball and spur levers! Both are just the neatest style lever of any single shot rifle I've ever seen. The loop lever on pistol grip Ballards was not something often seen on other maker's single shot rifles, so it is often looked at as a Marlin exclusive item.

Loop lever on my Rigby Ballard:



Ball & spur lever on my Schoyen Ballard #6 Schuetzen:




And an early Brown style lever on my 3 digit Ballard #4 Perfection. These guns had a hole in the lever and a pin in the frame the hole fit over. They predate the ring lever.



And a modified Pacific lever fitted with Pope style finger grip brass piece on another of my Schoyen Ballard rifles:

[Green Frog]

The Brown lever is the one I was calling an earlier “loop” lever. I’ve heard the one that looks like it came from a lever action repeater called a “four finger” lever, and of course there were a ton of the “lazy S” levers on the later Marlins. I have an old Storie-cast four finger lever (single trigger) and have given thought to heating and straightening it. I just don’t know how that cast steel would react to such indignities.

On another note, I just found the 100 rounds of Nosler 9.3X74 R brass I forgot I had bought... it looks pretty darned close to the one actual 40-85 factory round I had. The Norma 405 brass I thought was all I had is obviously way too short, and apropos of nothing, I also found a single factory round of 40-90 Sharps Straight and a box of Bell 40 Basic... boy, are those things looonnng!!

Froggie

[marlinman93]

The Brown lever is the one I was calling an earlier “loop” lever. I’ve heard the one that looks like it came from a lever action repeater called a “four finger” lever, and of course there were a ton of the “lazy S” levers on the later Marlins. I have an old Storie-cast four finger lever (single trigger) and have given thought to heating and straightening it. I just don’t know how that cast steel would react to such indignities.

On another note, I just found the 100 rounds of Nosler 9.3X74 R brass I forgot I had bought... it looks pretty darned close to the one actual 40-85 factory round I had. The Norma 405 brass I thought was all I had is obviously way too short, and apropos of nothing, I also found a single factory round of 40-90 Sharps Straight and a box of Bell 40 Basic... boy, are those things looonnng!!

Froggie

The loop lever you referred to as 4 finger lever was made in two lengths. One like my Rigby that ended even with the pistol grip stock, and another that extended about 3/16" past the bottom of the pistol grip. I've never figured out why Marlin made some longer, and haven't seen enough of them to determine any era, or model they were common to?

[Green Frog]

Vall, is anybody selling a blank extractor or better yet, one tight sized for 40-85/90? My existing extractor just barely touches the original round’s rim, and doesn’t even as it goes by the 9.3X74R rim.

Froggie

[marlinman93]

Vall, is anybody selling a blank extractor or better yet, one tight sized for 40-85/90? My existing extractor just barely touches the original round’s rim, and doesn’t even as it goes by the 9.3X74R rim.

Froggie

Give The Rifle Shoppe a call and ask him about his extractor blanks. I haven't bought one from him yet, but he can tell you how much material is on it, and what calibers it can be reworked to fit.

[Green Frog]

Well, now that I’m getting into it, the Pacific is getting nicer and nicer. The bore is becoming more and more shiny and the spots I was most concerned about are getting less and less distinct... I think it’s going to be OK. I tried a few of my 235 grain bullets I cast for my Maynard 40-40, and light as they Re, they showed signs of wanting to work. I had fireformed a half dozen rounds of the brass with light charges and cornmeal, topped with toilet paper (nothing cheap about me!) so today I loaded 5 of those rounds with the little Maynard bullets on 85 grains of 3f, and took another 4 pieces of virgin brass to fire form. Fresh out of the first fire form, the brass is still small from base nearly to neck, but when I shot them with a bullet today they blew out perfectly. See picture... left new brass, middle formed once, and right final formed.

Now I’ve gotta get the blankety blank extractor taken care of!

Froggie

[marlinman93]

I use my Lyman M die and simply expand the 9.5 necks to .410" and then load the cases with my powder and bullets. I tried this when I first got the gun thinking maybe they'd be OK accuracy, and better after forming fully. But I've found they shoot as well fire forming as they do on the 2nd loading. So I don't worry about the fire forming step now. If I want more to load I just grab another box of Nosler cases from my cheap stash and expand them.
They have a somewhat wasp like waist below the neck before the first firing, but seem to sit well in the chamber anyway. It's one of the easiest brass I form with, and simplest too. Don't even need any trimming for length, as it's perfect as is.

[Green Frog]

Thanks for that. I was just getting ready to load another 15 rounds for the two-step process. If I can find my 40 cal expander die, I’ll try your method first. Now all I have to do is call the Rifle Shoppe or somebody else who might have a good extractor for me and I’ll be good to go.

Did I mention I’ve been putzing around with this project for over a decade? I guess it’s getting to be time for me to get off my tookus and actually get this thing back on the firing line. One question seems to remain... it looks like my bore and groove diameter may be significantly larger than advertised. I shot some .413” bullets through it, but if I drag out the B&D mould, not only is it a heavier bullet, but it’s a couple of thou larger as well. What weight and diameter are you using Vall?

Froggie

Froggie

[marlinman93]

Thanks for that. I was just getting ready to load another 15 rounds for the two-step process. If I can find my 40 cal expander die, I’ll try your method first. Now all I have to do is call the Rifle Shoppe or somebody else who might have a good extractor for me and I’ll be good to go.

Did I mention I’ve been putzing around with this project for over a decade? I guess it’s getting to be time for me to get off my tookus and actually get this thing back on the firing line. One question seems to remain... it looks like my bore and groove diameter may be significantly larger than advertised. I shot some .413” bullets through it, but if I drag out the B&D mould, not only is it a heavier bullet, but it’s a couple of thou larger as well. What weight and diameter are you using Vall?

Froggie

Froggie

My mold drops a 315 gr. bullet that's .410" diameter. My bore is .4095" when I slugged it. If your bore is oversized, it might make larger .411-.412" bullets seated in the case not chamber at all without thinning the necks. And the 9.5 cases have pretty thin necks. So I'd try one loaded before I got too far along making up ammo and cases.

[Green Frog]

The bullets from my B&D mould (the conical, 235 gr design) drop out at about .414-.415”. I have a handful left that were cast several years ago, and when I tried them in the fire formed cases, they dropped right in, so I don’t think that’s going to be a problem. In fact, way back when I started trying to shoot this gun, I think I measured the groove diameter as way oversized... about .416”, and bought the B&D mould from Jim Borton accordingly. To be honest, one of my slow downs in the project occurred about then, and I really don’t recall ever casting a single bullet from that mould. It came from the days when Barry and Jim were working together closely though, and looked really good... I expect nice bullets from it.

Back to reforming the brass... I’ve got a 40 cal belling die to go in my Lyman multi-sizer, but it’s for pistols. I don’t know whether it will open the case mouths enough to accept those .414 Maynard bullets. I plan to try a few later today though. I bought 100 of those cases very reasonably one time when they had a factory clearance sale, and so far I’m on my first 10 rounds. I guess it’s time to go ahead and form the rest of that first box of 25 and get semi-serious about this, huh?

Froggie

[marlinman93]

My M die for .40 caliber is one I reworked from a .45 caliber plug. Lyman sells the plugs separately from the M dies, so I buy plugs the next size larger for $3, and then turn them down to the exact size I need. If it needs much taken down I use my small lathe, but if it's just a small adjustment I put them in my drill press and use a file or sandpaper to reduce them to the size I need.
The plugs are different depths depending on whether they're for pistol or rifle, so I always pick a rifle plug to ensure it will expend deep enough into my case neck to allow a bullet to fully seat.

[Green Frog]

Well, I couldn’t find the 40 cal expander for my Lyman Multi-Die, so I went on and used the old BP, Cream of Wheat and TP method to blow out ten more cases so I have a set of 20. Next I’ll load them with full charges of BP and light bullets to finish forming them out. This will just about exhaust my supply of these bullets, so I’ll have to get out the old lead pot and cast up some more. I’ve got the Maynard style mould for the “cylindrical” (long round nose) bullet that runs a little over 250 grains and although lighter than the one you’re using, Vall, I think will make a nice “express” version of the round.

Froggie

PS The Rifle Shoppe is listing a blank extractor (raw casting) for the Ballard, so I guess I’ll order one of them.

[Chill Wills]

For what it is worth, ....The Wyoming Armory is/was a source of Ballard extractors and I picked up two from them some time back. I can't say they always have them, but they are well finished and ready to be cut to the case needed and installed.


"
Froggie

PS The Rifle Shoppe is listing a blank extractor (raw casting) for the Ballard, so I guess I’ll order one of them. "

[marlinman93]

For what it is worth, ....The Wyoming Armory is/was a source of Ballard extractors and I picked up two from them some time back. I can't say they always have them, but they are well finished and ready to be cut to the case needed and installed.


"
Froggie

PS The Rifle Shoppe is listing a blank extractor (raw casting) for the Ballard, so I guess I’ll order one of them. "

That's great info! Didn't know they had them also in blanks. Do recall what they're charging for theirs?

[Green Frog]

Wyoming Armory no longer shows any Ballard parts on their website (at least when I looked yesterday) but The Rifle Shoppe shows raw castings for $19.95 + S/H.

Froggie

[Green Frog]

Went over to Roanoke yesterday to the Sportsman’s Warehouse and bought a #4 RCBS shell holder to fit the 9.3X74 case heads... it had to be a RCBS brand to work with an old Arawinko-made re- and de- I had stashed from my old days working with product reviews for the ASSRA Journal. I was pleased to see how quickly I could process the 20 formed (or partially formed) cases I’ve done so far. I plan to load them up and hopefully get them out to the range sometime Monday or Tuesday. Of course I still have to take my ramrod with me since I haven’t gotten a new extractor yet. Hopefully that will happen soon.

Froggie