old & new?

[444ttd]

i know this is nuthin but a rant or a tell all but here it goes..........

when i was young & dumb, i wanted a win pre-m64 in 264 win mag( i wanted it since i was 11yo). it would slay deer, bear, elk, moose and i'll take it to africa where i would shoot all the plains game. i wanted it sooooooo bad!!! then i turned 12(legal age to hunt) and i was given new(when savage was junk) a savage pump gun in 20ga. i was a bit crestfallen but i wanted a 264 win mag!!!!!! i carried it thru small game(#6) and it was my deer gun(remington slugs). well next year i'll have it!!!!! next year came and went(my dad's friend lent me 32 win spl.) and no gun. the same for the following year. christmas day i given by my late grandpap a used win m94 in 30-30. i fell in love with that. i can't count how many deer fell to that rifle, but i wasn't in love with it anymore. i got a rem m700 mountain rifle in '06 and i did buy a reloading set. i've gone thru i don't know how many guns, whether they wood & blued or plastic & stainless or whatever inbetween.

for the past couple of years, i sold off (except 2, which i don't use, but my dad and son can) all of my plastic/stainless rifles. the newest gun i have is a tc encore that s&w made. i have another encore that tc made. i have a couple of rifles made in 70s-90s but in spite of all, i luv older rifles. i love the wood and blued steel. i love taking them apart and seeing the genius behind them. peter-paul mauser was one of the greatest inventors of all time(the #1 inventor was nikola tesla). the 98 mauser is the pinnacle for all bolt action rifles, but i love the 95 and the 93 mausers. the krag-jorgensen rifle took smoothness to a whole another level. its a shame that we didn't feel the need for dual lugs, but the late michael petrov, collector/researcher on pre war rifles, did a krag action and ever increasing bullseye powder till it came unglued. and mr petrov did it with locking lug ground off!!!!! he did the krag with safety lug taking the brunt.

anyway, i had "plastic" stocks and stainless barrels but i just didn't like them. i had a tc venture in 25-06 and i killed a deer or two, but it just did click for me. the black "plastic" stock was flimsy and the black "plastic" magazine left alot to be desired. tc said that 3 shots at 100 yards are under 1". i did that with three different powders and bullets. tc also notes in fine print, its group is done with a mechanism, not human. you could shoot the venture for many years, but you can't find the "warmth" that wood does. i bought my son a graduation present, a scoped savage axis in 243. it was not what i would choose, but he had to have axis. it was a flimsy stock, plastic magazine and the dreaded accu-trigger. (i despise the accu-trigger) but thats what he wanted, so......... i have a savage m12 in 223 with a accu-trigger that i don't use. my dad and my oldest son shoot it. i have had stainless barrels, the last one i had was a tc encore in a 23" MGM stainless barrel in 6.5 creedmoor. i shot alot of 7 or 8 deer with it, but it never clicked for me. back then, you couldn't find 6.5cm brass. so i did the next best thing, 22-250 brass. yes it was short, but it was accurate. i reloaded 6.5/22-250 brass 9 or 10 times. then 2 or 3 years later, i had the chance to buy 6.5 cm hornady brass. i bought 500 pieces and i reloaded them 7 or 8x till i sold the barrel. years later, i had my fill of the cheap rifles.

now, its all about the wood blued steel and the old cartridges. 7x57, 7.65x53, 30-40 krag, 8x57, 30 remington, 35/30-30........ahhhhhhhhhh. i am going to build a 1898 spr armory in 22 hornet. but first i have another rifle to build for my youngest son, 93 mauser in a 22-24" douglas 7x57 with a wolverine stock (richard's microfit gunstocks). i have the action d&t, dayton trigger set, 2 position safety and scope bases. (in case your wondering, i had a stroke 7 or 8 years ago and it left me without the use of my right side, about 20% good. i was a shade tree gunsmith that was taught by my friend who was a true gunsmith) i used to able to d&t and some other things, but i'm afraid of my left arm. i don't want to bleep it up. so i prefer to let my gunsmith do the d&t and things that aren't for me. i can take the rifle apart and put it back together but d&t an cutting the rifle parts(dayton trigger set), i leave to my gunsmith.

i have a 98 mauser wolverine stock that i am finishing. i have gb lin speed oil on it. its drying, but i'll take 4 ought steel wool when its dry. i have a couple of more coats, then its pumice powder and then rottenstone powder to really finish it. when thats done, johnson paste wax will be the finisher. i started out with 240 grit sandpaper and then 320 grit and finally 400 grit. it took me about one month to do. the lin speed oil coats takes me about 2 months. the pumice and the rottenstone and the johnsons wax will take a couple of days to do. then when the stock is done, its mated to a 1944 98 mauser in 8x57 with redfield aperture sights. next up is my youngest son's mauser. i have another 93 spanish mauser that needs done. but it will be a 257 roberts with a 24" douglas or green mountain barrel. but i'll do that in between my youngest son's mauser and a 1898 spr armory(22 hornet) that i have to rebuild. the 93 spanish stock needs stripped and some lin speed on it. i have a husqvarna m46 that needs its stock redone too, but thats on the back burner. i have another 1898 spr armory action(without bolt) and a 95 chilean navy mauser action to be built, but those two "are still in the fridge". i have a couple more actions to build, but i pretend that they are non existent. i got enuff on my plate.

the 93 spanish will be a "cheap" rifle. the 257 bob is one of my dream calibers. i know the bob isn't a 264 win mag(the only magnum i want) , but i'll take it and smile. the bob will need a dayton trigger set (cock on opening) and d&t to make a scope mount. the "cheapness" is i will take original sporterized stock and strip it. then i'll stain it dark wood and either lin speed oil or minwax antique wood oil. i'll probably go with the green mountain barrel, but i'll wait on that. the scope mounts will be steel, not aluminium. and i'll scope it with a 2-7x leupold freedom. i have two 2-7x freedom scopes, husky m46 in 9.3x57 and tc encore in 23" mgm barrel in 500 linebaugh.

my win m94(1972) has been rebored to a 35/30-30 and i love it now!!!! 200gr fn gc(rcbs) with 20.0gr of 2400 and a tuft of dacron goes 1726fps will cloverleaf 3 shots at 100 yards(williams fp aperture sight goes the credit). JES Reboring does a wonderful job. 5 stars to him. i recommend jesse highly!!!! when the other 1898 spr armory action is rebarreled, it will be a 405 jes.

well i'm done complaining fer now. i luv my wood & blued steel rifles. i luv mauser and krags actions. you ain't gonna change me, i don't care if the new action is light weight or any of that new fangled stuff(like "plastic"). you do it your way and i'll do it mine.

[Bazoo]

I'm 36. I like wood and steel. I like guns that show honest wear. I don't like plastic stocks but i don't mind stainless if it's in the right shape, mini 14 stainless with a wood stock, Ruger GP100, 1911. But mostly I prefer blued and wood. I like older guns, but don't have anything older than 1970. My winchester 94 was made in 1973.

I have a savage 110 with a cheap wood stock, but it speaks to me for some reason. Maybe because the guy who traded it was in a wheelchair and the stock is beat up.

The one I really want is a winchester 71, I dont know how long it'll take, but it's at the top of the list. Then a winchester 1894 pre WWII. I don't think I I'll give up my current 94 for it, but maybe I'll gift it to my son when he's of age.

I do enjoy my Ruger single actions, new models though. Never liked carrying an empty chamber. I can't stand colts offset trigger. But I'd warm up to 5 shots if the trigger was centered.

That's where I'm at.

[pietro]

.

Yeah, it's a sickness - but one I can definitely live with...

[Cargo]

The rifle I regret selling the most was my Swedish 6.5x55 Krag. The wife and I have been adding more and more wood and steel to the safe over the last few years.

[444ttd]

i've regretted selling only two guns. the first was a savage m340 in 222 rem and the second was a ruger srh in 7.5" stainless barrel and wooden grips and it was a 44 mag.

i shot around 6000-7000 rounds thru the savage. i bought used, so i don't know the round count. it was the only rifle that i "shot out". if you would look inside the barrel at the chamber you would find the front chamber was fried, the rifling non existent, half way up you can find rifling and then 3/4 the way up, its gone. i should have rebarreled her, but i was young and dumb at the time. so i sold her. i've had 223s and 22-250 ai and i go "eh". it wasn't until i got the 20 vartarg (tc encore 23" MGM barrel) that i got excited. with careful handloads, the 20vt will go .1 - .2" at 100 yards(5 or 10 shots/benched). with reloads it will go around 1/2" at 100 yards. since i don't do "careful handloads" anymore, 1/2" +/- is fine fer me. groundhogs, foxes and 'yotes don't complain about it. well, they usually don't say nuthin cuz they're d-e-d, dead.

the other one got sold in my divorce, i had to pay my lawyer. the ruger srh was bought used but you couldn't tell. i put on a "new"(1993) aimpoint red dot and it was ready to go hunting. using handloads from a bench, i would either go with 200gr xtp or 240 xtp over a very warm charge of win296. 5 shots it would go 1 1/2 - 2" at 100 yards. i've killed 10-12 deer with it. my best shot was about 120+/-yards(didn't know/have a laser range finder) on a doe. i shot her on behind the shoulder and it exited on the offside ribs. she was drt. my shots usually go around 30-40 yards, but that 120 yard shot i'll never forget.

[Txcowboy52]

I regret selling a Ruger M77 in 220 swift , it had the sweetest trigger, I bought it used and it had been tuned up some! It was a great shooter! The other was a S&W model 66, I let a buddy talk me out of. I'm reminded of it on a regular basis when he out shoots me with it !!

[GregLaROCHE]

Nothing like blue steel and walnut. Doesn’t even have to be fancy walnut. The only stainless gun I ever had was a SW 44 mag that I eventually gave to my brother in-law, because I wasn’t shooting it.
My oldest gun is a 1812 Charville. My newest is my Marlin .45/70 I bought new in the early eighties. Lots in between. 6.5x55 Swede is probably my smoothest shooting.

[Drm50]

I busted my butt over pre 64 m70 264mag. Got one mint / 8x scope. Couldn’t get it to shoot. Got rid of it and bought one NIB ( this was 1967 ) again it was big disappointment. Twice was enough.
Next few years I gathered up a small collection of pre 64 m70s, all the standard calibers and 300 and 375H&H magnum. Everyone of them lived up to pre64 rep. Since I’ve had a couple other 264 mags and didn’t bother to shoot them. I know the story on bullets but never talked to anyone who was happy with 264mg.

[444ttd]

I busted my butt over pre 64 m70 264mag. Got one mint / 8x scope. Couldn’t get it to shoot. Got rid of it and bought one NIB ( this was 1967 ) again it was big disappointment. Twice was enough.
Next few years I gathered up a small collection of pre 64 m70s, all the standard calibers and 300 and 375H&H magnum. Everyone of them lived up to pre64 rep. Since I’ve had a couple other 264 mags and didn’t bother to shoot them. I know the story on bullets but never talked to anyone who was happy with 264mg.

well, i'm glad that i didn't buy it!!!!! it was and is the only magnum that i ever wanted. the 7, 300, 338 and whatever mags never made much sense to me. i hunt in sw PA and WV and a long shot is 80 or 90 yards, while they usually go 30-40 yards. i have helped guys track deer shot with the magnums. i have seen deer hit with the magnums(7 and 300 mags almost exclusively) and the deer runs off. i have heard from the mag owner, "i shot him/her right in shoulder/behind the shoulder and he/she runs off? i should've kept my '06/270/308/whatever." its like a "thing" to have the magnum and the deer doesn't go drt. i guess that magnum guys have too much tv and not enuff experience in the woods.

but thats why i go back to the original calibers, the 30-40 krag, 7.65x53, 7 and 8x57, '06........

[missionary5155]

Brown or laquered steel and walnut is not a bad combination either. And a cherry stock from 1770 can be rather handsome.

[charlie b]

Hunting is more about shot placement than caliber or 'magnum'.

Hunting with most rifle magnums at close range is a problem. They are made for long range hunting, or heavy animals. Some have bullets that probably aren't expanding on light game.

At 100yd or less you are better off with a slower, larger bullet that expands well. .30-30 is perfect in that situation (or .32 Win). And, the lever actions are probably the prettiest guns out there. Blued steel, walnut stocks. Some case hardening thrown in there. And, you could even go with a pistol caliber at those ranges and be well armed.

.264WM is one of the over bore 6.5's out there. Good if you want heavy for caliber, long range performance (1000yd) at the expense of barrel life.

[sharps4590]

I have two stainless revolvers, simply because the S&W 696 was never made in blue during its short life and Freedom Arms doesn't make the Mod. 97 in blued steel. None of my rifles are stainless nor plastic. Oldest is an 1850's-ish, Manton, 16 bore double ML. Newest is a Shiloh Sharps from the 90's. Newish rifle, old style. Most are pre-WWII and several are pre-WWI.

I don't believe an honest person can question the accuracy of new rifles, for what they cost but, most are sans a soul or character and certainly don't put a smile on my face.

The Krag is a smooth action but, it still takes a back seat to the 1903, '05, '08, '10 Mannlicher/Schoenauers and those made immediately post war. There's simply no comparison.

[Drm50]

I have seen lots of deer shot with 7mm mag & 300 mags. The deer running off wasn’t the problem.
It ruined the deer. It’s all in the bullet, using premium bullets for big game will usually shoot through a deer like a FMJ. A bullet like the Hornady 154gr SP will blow a hole big as your fist out the opposite side, running 3000fps+. The only magnum I have shot deer with is 375H&H, loaded with Speer 235gr Spitzer. Didn’t do anymore damage than a 35 SP.

I’m a firm believer in shot placement, but the smaller caliber magnums running 3000fps+ with SPs or HPs cause massive tissue damage. So much there is not point using one on light skinned game.

[samari46]

Had a buddy who transferred from our ship same time as I did. Always wanted a 264 Win Mag. So he had to check it in at the ships armory. Thats all he talked about as he lived out west. And there is my total experience with the 264 mag. Frank

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've got to agree with the thread consensus-- that the old rifles and old calibers/cartridges are hard to beat. It's a good thing that they made a lot of them, so that those who appreciate them can still search them out and enjoy them.

[444ttd]

I've got to agree with the thread consensus-- that the old rifles and old calibers/cartridges are hard to beat. It's a good thing that they made a lot of them, so that those who appreciate them can still search them out and enjoy them.

+1 with ya the there!!!!!!!

[444ttd]

Had a buddy who transferred from our ship same time as I did. Always wanted a 264 Win Mag. So he had to check it in at the ships armory. Thats all he talked about as he lived out west. And there is my total experience with the 264 mag. Frank

my "need" for the 264 mag has waned but my "want" is still strong. i could kill deer with a 30-30(90-95%), with a 270 win, the remaining 5-10% i could. (i did a 365 yard, give or take {i didn't have or know of a laser range finder back then} shot on a doe.) when i kill deer now, its a 30-40 yard shot. 80-90 yards is a long shot now.

if i had 264 mag, it would be a "wall hanger".

[Idaho45guy]

I love a beautiful wood/blued rifle, but there is a reason that composite stocks are used.

Saturday was opening day of elk season out here. I went out the week before and scouted for elk. It was 82 degrees, sunny, no wind, and dry as a bone with high fire danger.

Opening day for elk was a high of 52 degrees, raining, and wind gusts up to 35 mph.

How many guys do you think went out opening day with wood-stocked rifles and missed a trophy bull because the drastic change in humidity and temperature caused their stocks to swell and change the POI by a few inches or more? Probably none, because serious hunters all have gone to composite stocks because they are better than wood stocks in every way, except looks.

[sharps4590]

How many guys do you think went out opening day with wood-stocked rifles and missed a trophy bull because the drastic change in humidity and temperature caused their stocks to swell and change the POI by a few inches or more? Probably none, because serious hunters all have gone to composite stocks because they are better than wood stocks in every way, except looks.

That's more than a little presumptuous. I've hunted from Maine to Arizona and Wyoming to Virginia, in bone dry to pouring down rain & wind and falling snow, below zero to 80 degrees, from darn near sea level to 11,000 ft.. I think that's fairly serious and I don't own a single plastic stock/stainless rifle anymore. I've owned one in my life that was purely for long range, 1200 yards, target work and it's been gone for 20years. Except for a running deer in 1966 when I was 13 and hunting with an SMLE in full battle dress I haven't missed a head of game. But, after the 1966 experience, I'm picky about my shots.

Plastic stocks might be better in your opinion but I have absolutely no difficulty doing precisely what I want with them and I can admire the rifle, drilling, combination gun or double rifle I'm using rather than carry a tomato stake.

[444ttd]

of all the rifles i have owned and seen(that is alot), there was only one rifle that "swelled". it is my 98 mauser and a bishop's stock. the wooden stock was bent(i think right?, i got rid of it) in barrel channel and it was black and split(s) in the guard screw area. my 1936 husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57 with a wooden stock or my winchester m94 in 35/30-30 with a wooden stock, 91 argentine mauser with a wooden stock, 93 mausers with a wooden stock, 1898 springfield armory(s) with wooden stock........will completely disagree with Idaho45guy, esp the rifles that have a 110+ years old stock.