New Powder - Abysmal Failure

[redhawk0]

I've had good luck with Smoke's powders as well as Eastwood. I just got some Mirror Black and Raspberry metallic from Eastwood. I did some "sperimenting" and mixed the Black 1/3 with 2/3 Rasp. and came up with a deep raspberry color I liked. Coverage was good even though I'm really not that picky...as long as it covers enough not to lead a barrel...I'm fine with it. I did the smash test with a boolit and not a single flake/chip. I call that a success.

redhawk

[GregLaROCHE]

Black, red and blue seem to all work well for me. I can’t remember where I bought it from over two years ago. Someplace on the east coast I think. My shop is on the humid side. Unprotected steel will start rusting after a week. Therefore I am very cautious about keeping my powder dry. Double bagging it with all air out and then in Tupperware and silica gel packs in each bag. They’re cheap insurance.

Try a bit of a proven powder to begin with. Make sure your boolits are free from contamination. Just your fingers can put oils on them. Make sure you have enough static electricity going on when you are shaking. The right type of plastic container and air soft BBs. You can pre heat the boolits 120*F and let them sit a few minutes so all humidity possible evaporates, then shake when they are still warm to touch. Bake hotter for longer. Start with 400*F for 30 minutes. You can experiment with reducing time and temperature when you have things working. You shouldn’t need two coats if you’re doing everything right. And of course keep your powder dry.

[gnappi]

I very much agree with the "find one that works and stick with it" mindset. At first I went color crazy, and I was lucky to find a guy selling various formulations from a buyer color selection and I found three attractive colors I can live with the rest of my life and I bought several pounds of each.

While those sexy black and copper colors still tempt me, I'm "sticking" to what works flawlessly here in humid south Florida.

[memtb]

Humidity here is generally not a problem....except lack of. Sometimes in single digits in summer.

I would like to the colors looking like freshly cast bullets, but, for two of the bullets ....it’s to avoid any possible mix-ups. I’ve got 400 grainers for my handgun, and 430’s for my rifle....both with the same profile. Really easy to get them mixed up! Everything else that I cast for, can be easily recognized for what they are....they may all end up being silver!

Low temperatures may have been my issue, I tried to follow the written directions.....go figure! memtb

[Conditor22]

RAL 9004 SIGNAL BLACK - POLYESTER TGIC WEATHER RESISTANT POWDER COATING FOR INTERIOR OR EXTERIOR APPLICATIONS
CURE SCHEDULE = 340F/10 MIN @ PART METAL TEMPERATURE
GLOSS LEVEL = 85% ON 60 DEGREE METER
RECOMMENDED MIL THICKNESS = 2.0 – 3.0 MILS
SPECIFIC GRAVITY = 1.2 – 1.8
THEORETICAL COVERAGE = 51.5 SQ. FT.
SALT SPRAY RESULTS = 1,000+ HOURS

cook time/temperature does not affect coverage. that is a coating issue

pictures would be helpfull

TGIC GLOSS LEVEL = 85% should work better than that.

what caliber/siz boolit are you coating?
what container are you using? --- Cool whip 8 ounces are the standard, I like the 16 ounce ones better (#5 recycle)
what recycle number on the container?
are you using airsoft BB's?
are the boolits 100% clean? You don't need to water drop, just drop them on an old towel. it's too easy to contaminate boolits water dropping them
how much powder are you using? a couple of teaspoons full goes a long way (too much powder limits the friction and static build up)
how many boolits are you coating at a time too few boolits also limits friction and static buildup

a little more information and I'm sure we can figure this out

[charlie b]

I wonder if the fast cure time of that powder is part of the problem.

The Eastwood I use needs about 5min at 450F to flow, then another 20min at 400F to cure. That implies it remains a bit 'soft' for a lot longer, which may allow better coverage.

[memtb]

Contitor22, I do my best to give good information.

Bullet: 45 caliber - 400 grains - They were water dropped - Powder Coated 100 bullets
Container: 80 oz., Cottage Cheese, #5
Airsoft BB’s: Did not use
Powder Quantity: Did not measure, started with approximately 2 tablespoons, when looked at, did not appear to have good coverage.....added another 1 to 2 tablespoons
Clean Bullets: stored in closed plastic container since casting....I think that they were clean
I was casting three (3) different bullets at the same time, all water dropped into same bucket. The other bullets, while not as pretty as those of other shooters, they were acceptable.


Judging from your list of potential problems....I may “check the box” on several! Too much powder may be the most glaring offense!

I hope that this information will give some insight into my issues.

I wish to Thank You, and all of the others that have offered assistance! memtb

If the picture does not give sufficient detail....I’ll try again.

[redhawk0]

My guess is that you didn't generate any static. The AirSoft BBs really do help. I use an ice cream container #5 so the container you are using is likely adequate. That's a lot of powder. I use AS-BBs and for a batch of 100 .458 boolits I might have 1.5 T total. And still some left over.

I've never used the powder you've called out. It could very well be the powder itself. That really is a low temp/short bake from anything else I've ever used. I monitor my temperature to 390-405*F but I do set my timer for 26 minutes for a 20 minute powder cure to ensure the boolits are getting up to temp (I preheat my oven too).

try some AirSoft BBs next time and see if things improve. Shake a good 2-3 minutes (swirl and shake up and down)

redhawk

[OS OK]

These look to be coated with the clear base, looks like there's not enough pigment & what is there is clumping together.
Is that how that particular PC is designed to look?
What do the factory samples look like?

[memtb]

redhawk0, my thoughts as well. Awaiting the consensus among those much more knowledged than I.

OS_OK, It’s supposed to be full coverage, pretty and shiny!

[codarnall]

Someone mentioned polyester powder , poor choice in general. Time to look-up cross-linking polyurethanes. Cross-linking is what makes a coating extremely hard (strong) in that it is a three dimensional polymer molecule which is very stable for a long time at 400F forever.---Charlie

[Conditor22]

the picture tells me that one or more of these occured:
1) not enough static was built up
2) the boolit got contaminated
3) the powder needs BB's or Poly Pellets (something) to help build static
4) that powder formulation is not suitable for ASBBDT (I've had some powder that I swore would work but I bouldn't get them to coat well no matter what I tried)

I think it was 2)

try casting some more and NOT water dropping them (or clean them with either Acetone or mineral spirits). when they cool to the touch, PC them. try 2 teaspoons and 20-40 boolits and see what happens if the loose powder disappears from the bottom of the tub add a couple more teaspoons of PC

some PC works fine/great without BB's, some need the extra static the bb's help build.

only water drop IF you clean the bucket and replace the water EVERY TIME. It gets contaminated too easily and messes up coating- prevent powder from sticking.

You gain very little by water dropping the baking process takes out most of the hardness gained. many people drop boolits onto a towel, commercial casters drop them right on top of other boolits . I'm assuming 45/70 so you really don't need the extra hardness.

[memtb]

Just an acknowledgement of thanks again. I’ve not forgotten you guys, but, will be away from internet for a day or two. l’ll be back! memtb

[dryflash3]

Black from Smoke works fine for me, 1 coat.

[gnappi]

Contitor22, I do my best to give good information.

Bullet: 45 caliber - 400 grains - They were water dropped - Powder Coated 100 bullets
Container: 80 oz., Cottage Cheese, #5
Airsoft BB’s: Did not use
Powder Quantity: Did not measure, started with approximately 2 tablespoons, when looked at, did not appear to have good coverage.....added another 1 to 2 tablespoons
Clean Bullets: stored in closed plastic container since casting....I think that they were clean
I was casting three (3) different bullets at the same time, all water dropped into same bucket. The other bullets, while not as pretty as those of other shooters, they were acceptable.


Judging from your list of potential problems....I may “check the box” on several! Too much powder may be the most glaring offense!

I hope that this information will give some insight into my issues.

I wish to Thank You, and all of the others that have offered assistance! memtb

If the picture does not give sufficient detail....I’ll try again.

I bought some powder that came out looking almost EXACTLY like that, maybe even a little worse. I thought it may be humidity, not shaking long enough, etc. but I tried the same powder on a length of steel swag lamp chain and it came out EXCELLENT looking with a finish deep and shiny just like a black 1940's Buick!

[GregLaROCHE]

Can you use mineral sprits to clean boolits before coating? Acetone ok, but isn’t mineral spirits petroleum based and oil could cause problems?

[Dragonheart]

Some information straight from Prismatic Powders regarding second coats for lower temp cure powders.

"For thicker substrates, which require long bake times a substitute cure schedule of 20 mins at 350°F may be used. As always, the cure time starts when the substrate reaches temperature. Note: Each additional coat of powder coating will act as an insulator, which will l require additional time for the substrate to reach temperature. Extend cure times as needed."

This is a good example of why I use thermocouples. If you don't measure they you are guessing.