New Powder - Abysmal Failure

[memtb]

Admittedly, I’m very new with powder coating. My first two attempts gave fair results, but, seemingly a total failure with this new powder.

The powder is a gloss black, Polyester TGIC powder, with a 340 F cure temperature @10minutes time. Using a conventional oven (outside in pole barn) with a temperature gauge to keep temps close to the desired temp. As these are 400 grain, 45 caliber bullets, I went double the cook time to allow for the bullet mass to come up to temperature. Using S&B method, ambient humidity around 45%.

The only real significant difference from my previous attempts is that I used the silicon ice cube trays that others have used, and had good results.

My bullets had very poor coverage on the first coating, with more bullet exposed than covered. I did a another attempt on the bullets (2nd coat), still very little coverage.

I’m not sure were I went wrong, and really not begging for help....but wouldn’t refuse it either! I’m mostly venting in lieu of throwing things! However, throwing things may be more therapeutic! memtb

[popper]

Black doesn't flow well. Heat till it flows, melted. Cool second coat and bake normal.

[Conditor22]

popper's right, blacks can be a little tricky/finicky go get a good 1 coat coverage.

never leave the PC open any longer than you have to --- keep it dry.

poor coverage could stem from the boolit not being clean. IF I'm not coating my boolits right away I put them in zipper bags to keep them clean.

IF you really having problems warm you boolits in an oven set at 150° or less IF they are to hot to touch bear handed they are to hot to coat.

340° seems kind of low to me. when it says "10minutes time." there is usually a condition before that ie:
bake for xx minutes at xxx° AFTER (1) the alloy has reached xxx° or (2) the PC has flowed out

[slide]

I never had much luck with black either. Sounds like you may have overbaked the powder. Go to amazon get yourself a digital thermometer with a thermocouple. Drill a hole in a coated bullet and secure it with high heat aluminum tape. Put the bullet in with the next batch you bake. When you hit your temp mark start a timer or use your watch. Takes the guesswork out of it and it doesn't cost much.

[cwlongshot]

Yes I agree with above.

Dont fret much not all powders are created equil and you likely have a bugger!

As mentioned above. KEEP BULLETS CLEAN! Means NO TOUCHING! Warm the bullets before powder application. I like to lay a single Layer in a basket on too Of a heating toaster oven. NEVER HAD them get too Hot. Then swirl in new powder.

Keep Powder Sealed and dry as ya can. I dbl bag always.

400 AFTER FLOW @ 400! YES 100% les temp and time will
Have nice looking bullets!! BUT MAY NOT DO AS YOU EXPECT!! They could clash with powder, they could allow leading. They could foul the barrel.


REMEMBER, these powder where designed to be SPRAYED ON A ELECTRICALLY CHARGED SURFACE!! Tumble coating is NOT how they are designed to work. So finding some
Products that WONT WORK is EXPECTED!!

CW

[jessdigs]

Smokes black. One coat, shake and bake. Before and after baking

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[memtb]

Conditor, I went to paperwork for powder to verify the temperature and duration.....340 @ 10 minutes with bullets at temperature. Hence, the reason for doubling+ the cook time! I used an IR gun, I know not as accurate as attaching a thermocouple.....but, I had one. Also, when coated 2nd time, bullets were warm....not hot.

cwlongshot, 400 degrees....even if paperwork indicates 340 degrees?

jessdigs, Rub it in!! Also.....I didn’t get nearly the coverage your photo indicates prior to bake! memtb

[jessdigs]

Conditor, I went to paperwork for powder to verify the temperature and duration.....340 @ 10 minutes with bullets at temperature. Hence, the reason for doubling+ the cook time! I used an IR gun, I know not as accurate as attaching a thermocouple.....but, I had one. Also, when coated 2nd time, bullets were warm....not hot.

cwlongshot, 400 degrees....even if paperwork indicates 340 degrees?

jessdigs, Rub it in!! Also.....I didn’t get nearly the coverage your photo indicates prior to bake! memtb

I wasn't intending to rub it in, it was an endorsement for smokes powder. It's cheap, easy to get, and had been tried and proven. . You can even try a three pack sample for $23

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[memtb]

jessdigs, I was just kidding. Absolutely no hurt feeling on this end! memtb

[OS OK]

hahahaaa . . . . bet'Cha I've heard this story now 100 times at least!

This is just part of the fun of PC'ing your casts ... we all go through this process to some extent...fails & successes but don't be discouraged, don't be throwing anything you want to use again for sure!

Some of us are luckier than others, especially having old'hands around that's 'been there & done that' ... these boys give good advice as you are reading above, don't discount little things like using a convection oven or a no. 5 plastic tub to shake them in or using little plastic BB's for enhanced static...or even double zip locking your powder in 2 bags & even storing it in the house where humidity should be less of a problem.

Not only are you learning a good lube process but this one, unlike the old lube sizer is an art form also.
You can't ruin a cast boolit...they remelt just fine and you start over again...

For me, I've tried lotz of colors and then got over that real quick when I found two powders I could blend together and get as good or better results as I could with the 'clear gloss', <prolly one of the best coverages ever.

"Hang in there and try to remember....Your having fun here!"



Lotz of colors work like a champ ... find yours & stick with it, then you can look back and chuckle as you tell another 'Newb to the PC process' how to fix his problems.



There's a lot of good information here too...

(2)...The Devil's in the Details>>>>>PC Coatings<<<<<
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lt-lt-lt-lt-lt

[Conditor22]

What is the brand and color name of your powder?

[bangerjim]

Why deviate from what works??????? Stick with Smoke's powders - he tests them B4 ever offering them on here. Off-brand powders can be really a hit and miss situation. All types powders are engineered to be applied with a coronal discharge static gun, not a plastic tub! Some just do not work that way. And MOST powders say 400F.

I would stick with 400 even if they say different. Overheating will not hurt the coating. And be sure the powder turns completely shiny B4 starting your cook timing. I use 10 min after shiny and every powder I have coats perfectly, including the dreaded HF matte black (all applied with an ESPC gun).

But black anything seems not to coat as well using the tumble method. I think it is the carbon black pigment that causes the coating problems.....it must minimize the weak static charge generated in the bowl. If you have divots, look closely and you will see that clear covering IS there, even though the black pigment is not. And the poly coating is what we are after, not the technicolor rainbow color schemes.

Good luck!

[OS OK]

What is the brand and color name of your powder?

As far as I know Jim...it's been Sherwin Williams.

I get it in quart baggies from a powder coating contractor over in Auburn...never saw what boxes he gets it from.
On the black & white, I know it's from them, I asked and he said so.

On the brass & copper, I only suspect it...he gave me two bags of that stuff several years ago to try, he doesn't like it on large surfaces because he said it's splotchy.

I am surprised to hear that black is a troublesome PC ... hmmmm ... maybe it's the hot weather and low humidity out here that's an advantage in coating in the tub?



The thing about PC & me is this...it needs to shake on quick, no two minutes of doing the juggle & if it doesn't coat in one coat and well...it's out'a here!

[memtb]

What is the brand and color name of your powder?

I’m using RAL 9004 (Signal Black) from Powder by the Pound.

bangerjim, Maybe I should try 400 F.....I guess that it couldn’t hurt!

OS Ok, Thanks for the positive feedback. I haven’t thrown in the towel yet....just a little bummed out! memtb

[bangerjim]

Never throw the towel in! Unless it is in your boolit casting drop pan of water! That is what I use to catch fresh hot drops without damage.

[memtb]

Never throw the towel in! Unless it is in your boolit casting drop pan of water! That is what I use to catch fresh hot drops without damage.

👍 Thanks! memtb

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had no problems with coverage usings smokes black. that said a few color did give me fits. The copper was the worse. But look at your bullets. If they have a shinny (looks like clear coat) coat on them there fine to shoot. Only thing your lacking is the color pigment and that doesnt do anything. IF you have dull lead spots on the bullets then your going to have to redo them.

[brassrat]

I had a lousy outcome with the HF black and was not gonna stop until I got some success. Without a long story that I can't remember, I mixed with acetone and let dry. After a few tries, I got some decent boolets.

[memtb]

Thanks guys! I’ll attempt to see if I have coverage....but, no color! And, I haven’t given-up yet. I really wanted to load and shoot some of these in my 460 XVR. I have enough “store bought” 395’s to get me through the hunting season, but, wanted to develop a load with my bullets. I was very successful with my 45-70 and was hoping for a “Instant Replay”! memtb

[memtb]

OS_OK.......beautiful bullets! When I grow up....I hope that my bullets can look that good! memtb