A New Lyman 45 Lubesizer stuck?

[DonMountain]

I picked up from a farm auction today an Ideal/Lyman No. 45 Bullet Lubricator and Sizer for $15. At that price I couldn't resist bidding that price up to that point. It even came with the ratchet handle marked Lyman-Ideal, CM-13. All of the paint and machined surfaces and bluing on the lube cylinder are in real good shape, and it looks like all the pivot joints are well greased and or lubricated. Spring looks good. Very little corrosion on the sliding shafts, spring or linkages. The handle is down with the bullet nose punch down to the top of the sizing die, and there is where it is stuck. I don't know if the lube in places is gummed up or if the little bit of corrosion on the sliding rods or the lube cylinder is stopping it from moving. Overall it looks like it has had very little use with no wear anywhere on the paint. So, what I am looking for is recommendations on freeing up the lubricator/sizer so I can clean it and use it. It looks like the person that owned it had purchased it 50 years ago and did one batch of bullet sizing and put it in a box where it sat until the auction. I have an RCBS LAM-II that I have been using for years, so I am unfamiliar with the Lyman 45.

[Leslie Sapp]

It probably is just old lube gumming it up. Pop it in a big pot of water and boil it out.

Preferably not in your wife's favorite stock pot.

[Mk42gunner]

With our local weather; it may be old gummed lube, or it may be corrosion on or in the sliding surfaces.

I would invest in an aerosol can of Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster and try that first. Once you get the first bit of movement it just takes a bit of elbow grease, and maybe a few judicious taps with a hammer.

I'm not a fan of boiling out old lube, I'd rather heat it gently with a propane torch to clean a lubrisizer.

Robert

[DonMountain]

Ok, I had a can of PB Blaster out in the shop, so I sprayed it down liberally where the cast iron piece slides up and down the lubricant reservoir. Plus other moving areas like the two vertical rods. Maybe I will let it sit all night like that, and then borrow my wife's hairdryer tomorrow and heat it up. Since she is out of town visiting her sister until tomorrow evening. I am afraid boiling it in water will take off the paint.

[jaguarxk120]

Use a hair dryer to heat the whole thing up.
Remember when using oils time is on your side, the longer they
work the better.

[DonMountain]

Ok, after soaking it in PB Blaster for a couple of hours, I went out and set it on the edge of the bench and eased the handle up and it started to move. A little more PB Blaster and I have it moving throughout its range now. It has a 468 top punch and a 280 sizer die in it. I'll have to look through the Lyman reloading manuals to see what bullet mold this might have been used for. I do know there was an old Winchester Model 70 at the sale in 270.

[metricmonkeywrench]

There’s a bunch of references about. Plenty of info up in the stickies on the 45. The top punch is generally associated to a specific mould with a couple of sister moulds with the same nose shape/taper.

[Jal5]

Great find! A little heat got mine up and moving. You may want to sit it in a cardboard
box and play a heat gun on it to let that old lube drip out. Then take the die out and use some heat to get the lube out.

Some good threads on here about restoring these old sizers.
Joe

[BigEyeBob]

I picked up from a farm auction today an Ideal/Lyman No. 45 Bullet Lubricator and Sizer for $15. At that price I couldn't resist bidding that price up to that point. It even came with the ratchet handle marked Lyman-Ideal, CM-13. All of the paint and machined surfaces and bluing on the lube cylinder are in real good shape, and it looks like all the pivot joints are well greased and or lubricated. Spring looks good. Very little corrosion on the sliding shafts, spring or linkages. The handle is down with the bullet nose punch down to the top of the sizing die, and there is where it is stuck. I don't know if the lube in places is gummed up or if the little bit of corrosion on the sliding rods or the lube cylinder is stopping it from moving. Overall it looks like it has had very little use with no wear anywhere on the paint. So, what I am looking for is recommendations on freeing up the lubricator/sizer so I can clean it and use it. It looks like the person that owned it had purchased it 50 years ago and did one batch of bullet sizing and put it in a box where it sat until the auction. I have an RCBS LAM-II that I have been using for years, so I am unfamiliar with the Lyman 45.

These had a split seal in the lube cylinder its possible for the lube to bypass the seal if the lube used was soft and easily moved and fill above the seal preventing the handle from lifting up .I machined up a full lip seal for mine and get no lube bypass .The original handles on these breaks easily if you lean on it too much .

[DonMountain]

These had a split seal in the lube cylinder its possible for the lube to bypass the seal if the lube used was soft and easily moved and fill above the seal preventing the handle from lifting up .I machined up a full lip seal for mine and get no lube bypass .The original handles on these breaks easily if you lean on it too much .

I apologize for my non-mechanical understanding on how these lubricators even work. You seem to be indicating that there is some sort of connection between the handle that lowers the top punch to push the bullet into the sizing die, and the pressure in the lubricant reservoir? I thought the large handle just pushed the bullet down into the sizing die and the rods on each side pulled the bullet back out of the sizing die with the two rods and cross-piece on the bottom of them. And the lubricant pressure was all controlled by the ratchet wrench on the rod in top of the Lubricant reservoir screwing a pressure disc down on top of the lubricant to force it through channels or voids in the casting to the holes in the sizer die?

[sigep1764]

The 468 top punch is for the Lyman 280412 and 280468 molds and yep, they are for the 270 Winchester.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Take the function in two pieces, the handle rods and crossbar guide the bullet in and out of the die fairly straight. The adjuster at The bottom sets the depth that the bullets can go to align the lube grooves of the bullet with the lube ports in the die.

The second function is the piston is forced down in the reservoir tube as the top Hex is turned with the little wrench. This lube under pressure if then forced into the lube grooves when the grooves are exposed to the port when pressed thru by the handle. The inner rod of the dies keeps the ports closed when a bullet is not there.

The type of lube is also key, softer lubes will work at room temp, harder lubes need the sizer to be somewhat heated to get the lube to flow and make the sizer easier to operate. The last thing to be mindful of is how much you are sizing a bullet down, as an exaggeration sizing a .45 bullet to fit a .38 can be done but to do it in one shot is looking for disaster.

[DonMountain]

Ok, I have made some more advancements. I removed the top punch and the sizing die after heating up the cast iron sections holding them. I heated the lubricant tube but the piston now rotates when turning the threaded rod instead of moving up and down. The piston threaded rod does slide out the bottom of the base cast iron casting about a half of an inch. I pushed it back in and will wait until it all cools down before trying to turn the piston rod again, hoping the piston will stick to the internal surface of the tube to prevent it from turning. It appears the piston is close to the bottom of the tube and hope it hasn't been jammed on the end of the threads.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Ok with the half inch movement on the rod and the rotation of the piston you may be ok. Get it screwed down so that the rod can now become trapped(fixed) so that it cant unscrew out of the bottom. This will now allow the rod to force the piston up.

A dowel or screwdriver may need to be used to hold the piston from rotating, but don’t wedge anything between the tube and the wall, it could scar it up and cause an internal leak.

On one of mine after heating it up to melt the wax I was actually able to unscrew the reservoir by hand, again no tools here to avoid damaging the tube

Mine are screwed to oak boards that are clamped to the bench when I want to use them.

[DonMountain]

Mine are screwed to oak boards that are clamped to the bench when I want to use them.

Thanks for the suggestion. I already went downstairs and cut off a piece of oak board to mount mine to. That is when the rain stops so I can run back out to the shop.

[DonMountain]

I tried screwing the 45 sizer down to a board and clamped the board to the bench. But rotating the wrench on the piston rod still rotates the piston like it is glued to the threads on the rod. So, I unscrewed it from the board and pushed the piston rod down in the cylinder so the bottom of it sticks out of the bottom of the cast iron base, and put it in the freezer. Leaving it overnight, I then tried to turn it with a wrench with the same results, the piston turns inside the cylinder. I have read through all the stickies above, and see a couple of possibilities. One is to try turning out the cylinder, so I went to Harbor Freight and bought a set of their strap wrenches and tried to unscrew it. But I couldn't get that to work even heated up. So, is there something I can do to lubricate the threads so they will come free with less torque? I don't want to try my chain ViceGrip due to damaging the bluing on the cylinder. The other possibility is that since I have about 1/2" of the threaded shaft sticking out of the bottom of the cast iron casting, I could cut it off and then just pull the threaded rod and piston up out of the top of the cylinder, and buy a new one from Lyman for the 4500?

[Mk42gunner]

Don,

I'm not sure if any parts interchange between the 45 and the 4500. I know most of the 4500 parts will retrofit the 450, just not sure about the 45.

Since the threaded rod will unscrew out the bottom, can you use it to push the piston up the reservoir?

Robert

[DonMountain]

Don,

I'm not sure if any parts interchange between the 45 and the 4500. I know most of the 4500 parts will retrofit the 450, just not sure about the 45.

Since the threaded rod will unscrew out the bottom, can you use it to push the piston up the reservoir?

Robert

I can move the piston up and down about 1/2" in the reservoir. The same amount the threaded rod protrudes from the bottom when I push it down. But even when I froze the entire thing, when I turn the threaded rod from the top, the piston rotates in the reservoir tube. So, I need to do something to stop the piston from rotating while I turn the screw. I have tried to remove the reservoir, but its tight and I can't break it loose. Is there something I can do to loosen it? Heating it? More PB blaster? Something else?

[Winger Ed.]

I'd keep doing what you're doing with the penetrating oils and mild heat.
I wouldn't get it any hotter than what you can pick up and hold for a few seconds.

Don't get in a hurry and start looking around for a big hammer.

The old lube gets harder & harder over time, but the oils and heat will slowly soften it back up.
It took several years to get it that way, you won't safely undo that effect in a few minutes--- be patient.

If you need to hold something with pliers, split a piece of fuel line or garden hose to put inside the jaws
to keep from scratching anything.

[Mk42gunner]

I hate to tell you this, but I bought an old gray 450 for $20 one time that acted like that. When I finally got it apart the threads were messed up on both the rod and the piston. Not saying yours is, but mine was. Fortunately Lyman had replacement parts for it.

Otherwise, I think Winger Ed gave us all some good advice about not getting in a hurry.

Good Luck,

Robert