450/577 Martini Henry

[lebl468]

I got a Martini Henery coming next week, would like to paper patch for it. Never done it before, looking for a push in the right direction, thinking of using a 400gr mould ment for my 45-70. Any one loading for one of these bad boys?

[Buckshot]

I got a Martini Henery coming next week, would like to paper patch for it. Never done it before, looking for a push in the right direction, thinking of using a 400gr mould ment for my 45-70. Any one loading for one of these bad boys?

..............I load for 2 of'em. A British Enfield made, MkIV Martini-Henry and a Wm Greener actioned sporter with ratchet rifling.

Check here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...77-450+MArtini

And you can do a search. Search: 577-450 Martini, 577-450 Enfield.

................Buckshot

[dromia]

What Mark is it?

They have differing groove diameters.

[Japlmg]

Yes, the Mark is important.
Mark I, II & III's have bores that run in the .462 to .464 range, while Mark IV's run in the .470 to .474 range.
For a Mark I, II or III you can take a .457 diameter cast bullet and patch it up to .464 real easy.
For a Mark IV, start with an as cast .459 diameter and use thicker paper to get to .474 diameter.
Gregg

[lebl468]

It's one of those Nepalese deals..........and before you say it, sight unseen, I may not ever be reloading for it anyhow! But if it turn out a good specimen, I will slug the bore first, then go from there. I have been looking around on BuffaloArms, and they have a couple moulds that look pretty interesting. Worst comes to worst, I may even try patching my 45-70, and 50-70......

[Bigjohn]

I have seen a drawing on the MARTINI forum suggesting these bores taper from chamber to muzzle.

John

[DoctorBill]

I just bought an excellent Martini-Henry Mk II 577/450 for $575 at Cabelas in Idaho.
Apparently an older gentleman collector sold off his entire collection.

Obtained 30 .577/450 cases (Jamison - $3.40 each one) and the big
LEE three Die set ($88) from BuffaloArms.com.

Then I got the LEE 457-450-FN Mold and have 50 bullets ready to go.

I intend to paper patch the bullets, but I have a butt-load of stuff to learn
about using Black Powder (I want to use Pyrodex to decrease corrosive
deposits) for loading of cartridges.

Apparently there are lube wads, milk carton wads, fillers, etc that this
MHR Cartridge requires !



DoctorBill

[dromia]

I have found Pyrodex to be at least if not more hygroscopic than black powder so the "corrosion" reason for using Pyrodex doesn't really stand up in my book.

Use black powder, that is what they were designed for. The only reason I might consider Pyrodex was if I couldn't get black and if I did then my cleaning regime would be even stricter than if I was using black.

[herbert buckland]

It's one of those Nepalese deals..........and before you say it, sight unseen, I may not ever be reloading for it anyhow! But if it turn out a good specimen, I will slug the bore first, then go from there. I have been looking around on BuffaloArms, and they have a couple moulds that look pretty interesting. Worst comes to worst, I may even try patching my 45-70, and 50-70......

Be carfull here these rifles have welded barrells,also the action is not as strong as the MH and the bore diameter is smaller than the Martini Henry around .455 to .458,if you want to shoot it after geting it checked out youse 45-70 GG bullets and around 60 to 70gr of F BP and a filler

[Ed in North Texas]

Be carfull here these rifles have welded barrells,also the action is not as strong as the MH and the bore diameter is smaller than the Martini Henry around .455 to .458,if you want to shoot it after geting it checked out youse 45-70 GG bullets and around 60 to 70gr of F BP and a filler

He didn't say whether he has an actual Martini Henry Mark IV, or a Gehendra or Francotte. If he has the M-H Mark IV, it is most likely like mine - Enfield made and refurbed at an Indian arsenal before being turned over to the Nepalese. Mine is marked on the barrel NS NEP (Native Service Nepal). It was refurbed at the Allahabad, India arsenal in October, 1908 and was #9060 of 10,000 rifles the Nepalese received from the Brits. Assuming good condition, these are as safe to shoot as any other British M-H of the period. He should use the .470 to .472 boolit diameter recommended for the Mark IV. Others report using even larger diameter boolits as the throats on the M-H is rather large.

On the other hand, he may have a Gehendra, or Francotte rifle. I read of some folks shooting theirs, though with lighter loads. Others hold that they shouldn't be fired at all. I'll stay out of that issue as I don't own either one.

[DoctorBill]

My Martini-Henry Mark II has a Fire Formed Neck INNER diameter of
0.475 to 0.477 ! ! !

I want to use .457 LEE Cast Bullets with a paper patch wrap.

Should I PP to .468 (the supposed diameter of MHR's)
or should I PP to .475 inch - - - which might be too tight a fit in the barrel ?

If I PP to .468, the bullet will be loose in the case neck.
I really don't want to crimp the cases down because that will wear out
this new Jamison Brass that costs $3.40 each case !

The rifle's Bore looks great.

DoctorBill

[Ed in North Texas]

DoctorBill: If you search for the posts in the Black Powder shooting section, there is a discussion of the taper of the leade and the sizing of cast boolits in the following thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=123866

If you are on the British Militaria MH forum, do a search for bore diameter and you'll come up with a number of threads, some complete with diagrams from the very knowledgeable folks over there.

Hope that helps. As you can see, the link is to where I started on this odyssey.

[rollmyown]

My Martini-Henry Mark II has a Fire Formed Neck INNER diameter of
0.475 to 0.477 ! ! !

I want to use .457 LEE Cast Bullets with a paper patch wrap.

Should I PP to .468 (the supposed diameter of MHR's)
or should I PP to .475 inch - - - which might be too tight a fit in the barrel ?

If I PP to .468, the bullet will be loose in the case neck.
I really don't want to crimp the cases down because that will wear out
this new Jamison Brass that costs $3.40 each case !

The rifle's Bore looks great.

DoctorBill

If you think $3.40 per case is expensive try $9.00 out for size! That's the price for new Bertram brass from Jansa Arms in Australia.

The exchange rate is almost dollar for dollar.

[Chicken Thief]

You what?
Pay 2½ times the price in gods own country?

Do a driveby and scare some decent prises out of that sheep sha****g no good piece of kangaroo manure.

[herbert buckland]

My Martini-Henry Mark II has a Fire Formed Neck INNER diameter of
0.475 to 0.477 ! ! !

I want to use .457 LEE Cast Bullets with a paper patch wrap.

Should I PP to .468 (the supposed diameter of MHR's)
or should I PP to .475 inch - - - which might be too tight a fit in the barrel ?

If I PP to .468, the bullet will be loose in the case neck.
I really don't want to crimp the cases down because that will wear out
this new Jamison Brass that costs $3.40 each case !

The rifle's Bore looks great.

DoctorBill

The best results I have had PP the 577-450 was to PP to the diameter of the fired case so as it was a firm press fit,this is oftern up to .475,you need a greese wad of about 1/2 inch to keep lube up to PPed 577-450 loads were I come from

[DoctorBill]

Fantastic ! That is what I wanted to hear !

CURATOR just E-Mailed me with that same statement !

You see, I figured, from all that I've read, that a Martini-Henry will consume bullets
like that w/o any problem....

But, being new to these old chaps from "Merry Olde England", I wanted to know
if others did it....i.e didn't want to go do something stupid....as per usual....

Great - that is what I will do !

Now to just practice rolling Paper Patches until I get it right.

and....and...I am going to just use "whatever" for Lube Cookies.

There are more Lube Cookie Recipes than hairs on a cat !
Everybody says theirs is the best !
Some use Crisco, which I was wondering about....sounds like almost anything will work.

I'm off to see the Wizard - the wonderful Wizard of OZ !

DoctorBill

[Chicken Thief]

Crisco is good because it is plant oil with some water whipped in.
And basically when you shoot BP you make soap.
Fat from the lube, ash from the burnt BP and water from blowtubing or from the lube.
Enough water will keep the fouling so soft that the following shot will "wipe" the barrel clean.

[Ragnarok]

I have a Lee mold made just for the Martini..drops a .468/.469 bullet...with lube grooves.

For lube I use a 50/40/10 beeswax/crisco/canola oil mix...that in reality is probably more like 60/30/10..so the stuff thick enough for summer use.

I shoot these out of two BSA MkII rifles..and a Enfield MkIV(supposidly larger bore..don't think it is though)..works great in all three guns.

[DoctorBill]

Ragnarok - "I have a Lee mold made just for the Martini..drops a .468/.469 bullet...with lube grooves."

Is that mold a special order mold ? If so, who did you buy it from ?

If not, what is the LEE Mold Number ?

Most interested....

A friend of mine milled straight sides into my LEE 457-450 mold for me.



It drops .463 and .466 bullets - he did each side slightly differently.



Been trying different papers to Paper Patch them - I want to Paper Patch.
Have not tried them yet.

Tomorrow, my friend is going to cut a Taper Crimper out of Bar Stock and thread
it for 1 1/4 - 12. The man does incredible work !

BTW - Next time I make my Lube Cookie recipe, I'm going to add a few drops of
Hoppe's No. 9 so it smells better. Do they make a Hoppe's No. 9 after shave ?

DoctorBill

[Ragnarok]

Nah..not a custom mold..think I got it from Midway for like $30..they have two styles for the Martini..one is a more conventional bullet..and the other is what I term a 'bore rider' style bullet...I've got the bore rider mold...I'll dig it out and get you the Lee number

OOPs!...RCBS 465-480-FN is the number...Not a LEE mold. These are steel blocks. Think I was getting this one confused with my 500gr .459 mold..it is a Lee mold.

I get all my stuff from Midway..or Graf and Sons..and I'm fairly sure I got this set of mold blocks from Midway.