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Thread: Black Powder Target Riffle Assoc Creedmoor National Championships 3-day weekend

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    Black Powder Target Riffle Assoc Creedmoor National Championships 3-day weekend

    9/23/2020
    We don't get much reporting on the much talked about 800, 900 and 1000yd Creedmoor Matches. Loads, Rifles, Bullets and Powder; there might be some interest in what some of the better competitors at this match are using.

    Practice Thursday, 10 shots at each, 800y, 900, and 1000yds Friday and Saturday. Sunday will be two 15 shot matches at 1000yds. The eight matches agg makes up the winners.

    I will try to be the reporter, provide data and pictures.

    So far, I know the match is limited to 36 entries. Many of the competitors attending have a lot of time in these longrange Creedmoor events, on the order of decades. Shiloh is providing a prize rifle and many other manufactures providing prizes and equipment as well. Pure Fun and Bragging rights is the biggest motivation to doing well.

    If this sounds interesting, check in as I add posts and pictures.

    Michael Rix
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 09-30-2020 at 09:38 AM.
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    Boolit Buddy
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    Sounds like lots of fun. Will be looking forward to following along. Sounds like a nice prize to win.

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    Boolit Master slim1836's Avatar
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    I too look toward reading your reports, thanks.

    Slim
    JUST GOTTA LOVE THIS JOINT.

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    Boolit Master
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    Will look for it /thanks Ed

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    Boolit Buddy
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    I'll never shoot it but I'm interested in what works and how they go about it (loading, shooting techniques, etc).

    Dave

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    I lost some of the first part of this post. Moving it from word ??????
    Sorry, I can not re-type it tonight.

    Today was practice day.
    About 30 of the 40 or so competitors were here for the practice.
    They arrived form all over the country. The match is being held in Colorado. One of the owners of Shiloh rifles is here.

    Often when coming from other parts of the country, sight-settings are a little off here at altitude.

    We shot 800yd and 1000yds for sight-settings. 900 was optional after the formal practice was over at 13:00.


    Squads of four were assigned to a target. Two on the line and two in the pits. My partner Jack and I started out in the pits pulling and marking targets.

    When the time came for us to go to the line, the riflemen that shot and we pulled and marked targets for drove to the pit area and pulled our targets. Jack and I chose to both shoot at the same time on the same target, called pair firing. We take turns shooting, the target goes down.. is marked as to the shot location and value and then they run the target back up. So it looks like the two of us prone, rifles and each a ground scope to read the target as well as watch wind flags and keep and eye on the all important mirage.

    We confirmed our sights and since I am shooting a new batch of powder, I confirmed my load accuracy. I hope I am happy with it because really, it is a little too late if it showed it was shooting poorly.

    Most riflemen did as Jack and I, and stopped shooting for the day to tend to other needed stuff, in my case, finish loading the bullets into the last 100 rounds of brass that already had the primer, powder and wad installed. No compression. I shoot an uncompressed load for best accuracy. Others may have their own opinion. And, ....that is what makes a rifle match!


    I will have some pictures tomorrow to post. Hopefully! I think my camera came out of my kit and is still in the pits.
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 09-30-2020 at 09:41 AM.
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    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    I competed in the World Creedmoor shoot in Brisbane, Australia in 2006. I used a Pedersoli 45/70 which had been rechambered to 45/90 (Match Reamer) and used the late Dick Trent inspired PGT boolit over 78gn of Swiss No 1 1/2.

    Before the match, I was in disbelief that an open sighted black powder rifle could regularly hit a 20 inch bull at 1,000 yards, but I learnt quickly, and fired well, to end up a member of the winning team.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad *** Wallace View Post
    I competed in the World Creedmoor shoot in Brisbane, Australia in 2006.
    Yes. That was the Ernie Stallman - Badger barrels sponsored matches. Those were very good events. I shot in the 2002 and 2004 World Creedmoor match events but only had the where-with-all to go to RSA Championships in 2006. Two big trips were out of the question. I would have liked to have been at your match.
    Chill Wills

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    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    Dave Gulo? owner of Buffalo Arms used an original 1877 Sharps Borchard a beautiful original!
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad *** Wallace View Post
    Dave Gulo? owner of Buffalo Arms used an original 1877 Sharps Borchard a beautiful original!
    Dave Gullo. He has that rifle still and I will try to get a picture posted of it. Here he is on the target next to me in the pits pulling targets yesterday,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PitsresizedDSCN2206.jpg  
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    Boolit Master
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    Have a great time at the match! I expect that the competition will be tight Robert sure puts on a good one and the CRC is the best facility for it that I've ever been to.

    Chris.

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    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    We don't get much reporting on the much talked about 800, 900 and 1000yd Creedmoor Matches. Loads, Rifles, Bullets and Powder; there might be some interest in what some of the better competitors at this match are using.
    the BPC News prints Match Scores in each subscription of the magazines. Sometimes yes and no the for the Matches, the Loads, Rifles, Bullets and Powder; there might be some interest in what some of the better competitors at this match are using are listed
    Regards
    John

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    Tricky winds and hot weather were the rule today.
    I did not get many pictures today. I was busy just to keep up with the schedule. My partner Jack and I did not impress anyone with our scores today, but it was good to be back shooting longrange after not shooting since 2015. I was a little rusty and likely will be tomorrow too.

    Not everyone was however. Dave Gullo was in form and made it look easy. He my have shot a BPTRA Agg record for the 30 shot Creedmoor match. He posted a 278-4X out of a possible 300. That is a big score anytime. The rest of the pack scored in the 225 to 255 range and worked hard for it too.
    I will post the scoreboard.

    Tomorrow is day two of the same ten shots each at 800, 900, 1000yd and the same hot and breezy weather, then Sunday mother nature is giving us cold air with high winds for the two-15 shot 1000yd matches (30 shot agg).

    If you have questions about the rifles, equipment on the line or the target pits, let me know and I can take pictures and write answers.Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a good chance to see what the firing line set up looks like or how the big Creedmoor targets are scored. I'll do my best to show you what goes on and what it is like.
    Chill Wills

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    Saturday, day 2 is done. One day to go.
    Today was much like day 1 for heat and winds BUT the day was overcast, which removes one of the two big tools in deciding how to adjust to the wind conditions. Do you know what the second one is?

    Maybe it is assumed everyone knows about the role wind plays in target rifle matches. The rifleman needs to adjust the rifle for each shot to keep up with the changing conditions. Right? You can't just sight in, find the rifles windage zero, elevation zero and hold center and shoot.
    So, more than a game of shooting bullets into the center of the target (because you are good at holding center) BPCR and especially Long-range Creedmoor is a game of reading the wind and mirage conditions. Figuring how much right wind for example has strengthened from the last shot and how much the tail wind has dropped off, putting the two together and adjusting that from the point your last bullet landed from center so this next one will hit center. Some days it can make your head spin.

    Add to that the little talked about, but most important issue of fouling control (FC)between shots. Wondering if the last shot that went high was due to poor FC, or was it due to some other unseen condition.

    That makes indoor 22rf sound easy by comparison. Nether game is easy. I don't mean to say 22 is easy. They each have their own set of challenges.
    Bad *** Wallace - I talked to Dave and he agreed to pose with his original 1878 Sharps Borchardt rifle.
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    Here is the updated day two scoreboard.
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    I had a little bit of the rust of not shooting this game since 2015 knocked off yesterday. Today had fewer errors.
    As an example, my second shot yesterday I crossfired, which is a miss. Ouch! That reduces your score by 10 points and you feel dumb.

    I shot a master score today which is my class.

    After the match today, we had a dinner together at the range, door prizes and a grand-door prize Shiloh rifle givenaway. My shooting partner won the rifle. Wow! I was the lucky recipient of a gift certificate for one Buffalo Arms Co. bullet mold. Happy!

    The Shiloh rifle was awarded in an interesting way. After the match while waiting for dinner, all the competitors names were written on a square on large poster board and hung on the target frame. Our friend Jimbo Terry, shooting from the bench, put a single shot into it from 1000yds and the square/name hit by the bullet was the winner of the Shiloh rifle.
    Here is Jimbo behind the rifle with Kenny Wasserberger helping him adjust the rest before shooting...
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    Last edited by Chill Wills; 09-27-2020 at 12:38 AM.
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    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    Thanks for the updates !!!!

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    Boolit Grand Master

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    Enjoying this post a lot. Wind is the great equalizer, Its interesting to watch the top shooters shooting in the wind their scores may drop 3-5 points while the newer shooters are down 15-20. The only way to learn to shoot in the wind is to do it. I always enjoyed the "tough" days wind, light changes, mirage. I learned way more then.

    A good way to get an idea of wind is set up a flag spotting scope and if you have it a wind meter watch these in conjunction with the mirage in the spotting scope. Mount the ind meter on the flags staff if your scope is abe to read it and make your estimate then check the meter. Then its just knowing what that speed does to your bullet.

    The scores these guys shoot with 1870s technologies is really amazing and impressive.

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    Sunday, Day 3 the last day is shot at the 1000yd line only.
    Most creedmoor match formats are 10 shots at 800y, 900y and 1000yds for a total of 30 record shots.
    Today to speed the match up and to get people who are going home a start, the format today is only twice to the line for 15 shots each. So still 30 shots today and all from the long line.
    As it happens, the warm weather and medium winds of the past few days turned into 42F and overcast at the start of the morning and winds out of 1 O'clock, 25MPH gusting to 35MPH. OUCH! These are tough conditions to shoot in and keep your equipment from blowing to New Mexico much less to put a bullet through the target over a 1/2 mile away.

    You find tricks and systems to do this by trying to shoot a "condition" as best you can. Each rifleman has 35 minutes for unlimited sighters and 15 shots, so you probe around to get on paper (target) and then try to only shoot the "condition" when it returns. All the wile trying to keep your ammo, ground scope, wiping patches and hat from departing the county. Needless to say, the scores were a little lower today.
    My partner and I pulled a few rabbits out of hats to day, which is to say we got lucky a few times and we moved up in the standings.

    In the class system' competitors are ranked in what is called class. These are groups of competitors who have accumulated high enough scores to enter a class. In the silhouette game the lowest or entry level is B class and then moving up is A, AA, AAA,and Master Class. In the round target games, classes often are called Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and Master. Creedmoor uses this second naming system.
    In the higher or bigger matches like a National Championship there will be a top level of awards above master called Open and in this match three places were awarded in an open class.

    The outstanding rifleman again today was Dave Gullo who can make the most difficult conditions look easy. Dave won today's match and is the overall match winner. Watching him make these wind calls and then shooting bullet into the middle time after time is very impressive. Dave had a large lead on everyone and won easily. Shooting into second place is Steve Baldwin. You may know him as the maker of the outstanding line of tang match sights "Baldwin Sights".
    In third place over all is Hugh Wilson, the long time voice of the NRA BPCR nationals at Whittington Center.

    (I am going to start another post)
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 09-28-2020 at 12:12 AM.
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    Here is the scoreboard. I better get it posted before sleep overcomes me.
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