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Thread: Need some assistance with my alloy, please

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Need some assistance with my alloy, please

    Gentlemen,
    I was trying to make some alloy for 45-70 using lee mold 459-405 hb. Using the alloy calculator it states hunting hollow point 2%+/- tin and antimony. So I mixed up some alloy that consisted of:
    -.55lb (heavy 8oz) 50/50
    - 4.2lb pure lead
    -10lb coww
    Should be around 2.2% tin, 2.03% antimony, .17% arsenic, and 95.6% lead.
    I could not get this alloy to pour properly. No matter what I tried my boolits are wrinkled and no good. They all went back in the pot.
    I tried everything I could think of, more heat, less heat, cooler mold, hotter mold. Just could not get it to run right.
    I worked at it for over an hour, with 0 usable projectiles. I finally poured a few ingots out to get some out of the pot, unplugged the pot and walked away.
    Do I need more tin in the mix to get it to fill better?
    I am almost certain I had no zinc in my coww, I cut everyone with a dull set of dykes.
    Any suggestions please, I am at my wits end here! I've got 15lb of alloy that is essentially a door stop right now.....

  2. #2
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Sounds like your alloy is OK, but the mold is too cool.
    Aluminum molds don't hold the heat very well compared to iron or brass and take a little getting used to.

    Its common for folks to set them on a hot plate to keep them warmed up,
    or dip the corner of the mold in the pot to heat it up real quick.

    Lee used to recommend dipping a mold corner in the pot too.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    At one point I did place the mold in the melt for a short time, perhaps not long enough though.
    I will try to heat it up better.
    I have a heat gun that I could use, would that do the trick?
    I know this is a big mold that takes alot of lead to fill. But I did not have this much trouble getting nice rounds out of my lee 50 cal real mold. It casts around 318 or so, if I recall, out of pure of course.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Degrease the mold, a little dawn dishsoap and scrub with old toothbrush. Dry mold before using.

  5. #5
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    +1 on more heat. I have a 3 cavity mold for the 500 gr Pointed no grease groove .45 cal Rifle boolit and the mold has to be pretty warm for it to cast non wrinkled boolits. I get the mold so hot that they take on a frosted look once cooled. It casts really nicely when up to temperature. Also since it is 500 gr, I open up the pour spout to try to get all 500 gr poured before the nose starts to harden/cool.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    If degreasing & controlling the pot/mold temps doesn't help, I'D try adding a bit more tin. God knows, I'm no GENIUS at casting bullets, but when I've had failures to fill out the mold and all other things were correct, extra tin abolished the vacancies.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


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  7. #7
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evoken View Post
    I have a heat gun that I could use, would that do the trick?
    .

    That's be a good place to start.
    When you see wrinkles on the sides of a boolit, it almost always is from the mold being too cool.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the advice fellas. Looks like I need to get more heat to that big ol mold! If not, then more heat and more tin.

  9. #9
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    I am under the impression "frosting" is not a concern, correct? When I poured the few ingots out, they frosted once cooled. I think the melt was fairly hot. Still waiting on my thermometer, must be on a slow boat from Missouri, haha.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    The Lee 459-405 HB bullet is a nice bullet but since it is a hollow base you probably need to be running quiet a bit hotter than what you are accustomed to. The HB does transfer a lot of heat from the blocks. One of the common mistakes is when applying lube to the mold contact points is to get too much on those wear points and then it seeps/weeps into the cavity and then no matter the temperature, you get creases in the casting. Use extra care in bringing the mold halves together to avoid damage to the plug mating surfaces and the mold blocks.

    Your least concern at this point is frosty bullets. Frosty bullets mean the alloy is hot enough to give you a well filled out mold. Once you are casting well formed bullets, then you can be concerned about the appearance. If you were casting round ball projectiles, in a two cavity mold and then switch to a single cavity HB mold, there is a LOT LESS heat going into the mold blocks. You might also be spending too much time "sight seeing" and this will also result in a mold not heating up.

    If you did happen to get lube in the cavity, break out the cleaning agents and start cleaning the oil out of the cavity. Then heat the mold, sparingly apply your synthetic oil on the wear surfaces and see how it goes, but expect to go quickly. It might also help to invert the mold after you cut the sprue and before you open the mold so that the casting will drop off the plug. Dusty

  11. #11
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    I own 25 Lee moulds, and I never lube them. Well, I did when I first started using them some 45 years ago, but I soon learned it caused more problems than it solved. One of those problems was about the same one you're having. By the way, I have that same mould and it casts great boolits for me.
    You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Not saying this is the root cause, but the spru plate has to be hot-Hot-HOT or the alloy "cools" going through, resulting in poor fill out. Frost is, imo, overly hot, but it's easy to back off, let the mold cool a smidge, after frost is achieved. You'll get there. Some days are better than others.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  13. #13
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    Clean mould well. I use break cleaner followed with warm water and dish soap, because I spray down my moulds with Ballistol after each use. I never lube my aluminum moulds. As mentioned above, I think it can cause more problems than it solves.
    Make sure your alloy is hot enough. I’ve never used a thermometer. I keep my pot hot and when I see signs of frosting, I back off the heat a little. Frosted boolits aren’t the end of the world. If you don’t like them, just toss them back in the pot.
    Most of all, make sure you have an adequate flow rate. With big boolits like that, you need to get the mould filled before the lead starts to cool down. Your mould needs to be up to temp too. Either by preheating or casting boolits that may need to be discarded, just to heat up the mould.

  14. #14
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    Had a chance to run a few of these again yesterday. Got the mold good and hot with my heat gun and seemed to do better. Still lots of rejects, but I will keep playing with it. I ran some 44-240 afterwords just to make sure and they seemed ok.
    My thermometer should finally show up today so i will have a better idea where my melt is.

    All boolits were frosty, but I think I just need to work at it some more.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Frosted lead = heat is too high. When the mold is releasing frosty boolits ==> as the spru hardens, cool the mold against a damp dish towel for 10-15 seconds, release the boolits, pour again, and turn down the pot temp. Slow your cadence also. I don't know if I would use a heat gun as the mold could warp. Never did that myself. Others will have an experienced opinion in that.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Worked this mold a little.more this afternoon. There is a very short window in this one where it is perfect. I ended up with 35 decent boolits and culled 15. So at least I ended up with a full box that is ready for lube and sizing.
    I also made some nice 44 swc while I was fighting with the 45-70 mold.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I had the same problem yesterday with a RCBS 41-210. I cast a bunch of 432640's and then decided to make some for the 41 they all came out wrinkled and I had hit my physical limit with spinal pain and had to quit before the mold got hot enough to cast well formed bullets.
    A hot plate is now on the shopping list.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evoken View Post
    Worked this mold a little.more this afternoon....I ended up with 35 decent boolits and culled 15.
    Are you saying you heated your pot, heated your mold, poured 50, and stopped? I ask 'cause many of us pour 100's from the same mold at one casting session before culling to make the cost/time/quality triangle of opportunities work for us.

    You can make it FAST, at the expense of cost or quality.
    You can make it CHEAP, at the expense of time or quality.
    You can make it GOOD, at the expense of time or cost. A lot us us cast here...at the expense of time.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    If you poured that many bullets, your mould was heated up. I suspect oil is the problem. Toothbrush and dish soap followed by a good drying. I’ve used carb cleaner in the past but shy away after a buddy came down with bladder cancer possibly attributed to it

  20. #20
    Boolit Master daloper's Avatar
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    When I get a new mold I clean it with Colman fuel to remove any grease. It works for me. I use a q-tip to clean the mold cavities. After letting it dry I set it on my hotplate and heat cycle it atleast 4 times before I use it. I found a piece of copper plate to set on the hot plate to give me an even heat on the mold. If I have to stop for a bit I put the mold on the plate to keep it heated. Sometimes I will get wrinkled boolits if I pour to slow. Just adjust the stream up for a faster pour. I find I need to turn up the stream when I switch to a larger boolit.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check