Tumbling Buckshot?

[garrisonjoe]

The alloy calculator said 13% tin with a Brinnell of 14.6 aircooled.
What do you suppose it is water dropped?

It will be close to 28 BNH quenched. The antimony is what gives the alloy the ability to be quench hardened. Your antimony will be about 2.5%, and those alloys quench to about 28 BNH, when quenched from a 450 F starting temp. Pretty darn hard for most purposes. The sprue may indeed be hard to remove with a vibratory cleaner. I vibrate loaded ammo with BNH 9 bullets and walnut hull media, and the noses do not deform, they just get a little bit of burnishing and a few minor scratches on the nose!

Vibratory cleaners are intended to clean rather than impact the product. Any buckshot made harder than about 7BNH may be difficult to "vibrate off" the sprue.

good luck, garrisonjoe

[Leslie Sapp]

Maybe I'll just water quench straight wheel weights next time. What bhn should they be?

[megasupermagnum]

Maybe I'll just water quench straight wheel weights next time. What bhn should they be?

Probably the same. The water quenching has more of an effect than the exact alloy you use.

[cwlongshot]

Maybe I'll just water quench straight wheel weights next time. What bhn should they be?

IMHO there is simply no honest answer here. I was talkin with a guy who was quoting numbers awearing crazy bhn. I kept asking CLIP ON WHEEL WEIGHTS.. He replied WW. Fineally someone got him to realize that WW is A GENERAL term and COWW was different then SOWW. S.O. Are MUCH SOFTER, and terfore "soffen" the entire pot if COWW!!

THEN, not all COWW are same hardness EITHER!!! So ya can see how we can get into the confusion.

Suffice it to say, it will be harder by a goodly amount droped into ICE WATER directly from mold. Colder and consistantly COLD the is waterthe better results will be realized.

BUT... My own careful sorting of COWW net about 12-14 AIR COOLED and 17-20 QUENCHED. MY METHODS.

[Leslie Sapp]

My own careful sorting of COWW net about 12-14 AIR COOLED and 17-20 QUENCHED

The alloy calculator has COWW at 12, and I was expecting quenched pure COWW in the 17-18 range.

Haven't tested any yet, but I'll post the results once I do.

[cwlongshot]

What would ya think about casting but mot quenching. (To keep sofe enough to tumble round). Then after round heat treating and water quenching for hardness?

CW

[cwlongshot]

The alloy calculator has COWW at 12, and I was expecting quenched pure COWW in the 17-18 range.

Haven't tested any yet, but I'll post the results once I do.

Imagion that!! But again remember MY COWW are not NECESSARILY exact same as ANYONE ELSES!!! There isnt a level of testing proving the hardness of a WW...NO industry "standard" here. As long as they "stay on" they are hard enough... NO ONE IS GONNA complain!!

[megasupermagnum]

What would ya think about casting but mot quenching. (To keep sofe enough to tumble round). Then after round heat treating and water quenching for hardness?

CW

You certainly could, but heat treated still tumble just fine in my rock tumbler. There are charts around that show approxamate hardnesses for heat treating, and how temperature effects it. I wouldn't worry about it too much. When I tested, I was using straight clip on wheel weights, no soft lead at all, and added 2.5% tin. These COWW's were from the 70's most likely, my grandpa had in the pole barn for decades. If casting in the winter, I add a couple scoops of snow to the water bucket. If not, I run straight well water, which is nice and cool. Every time I've tested has been in that 25-30 BHN range, which of course depends on the temp they fall out of the mold, and the temp of the water.

Either way, they are very hard, and they do pattern better than soft buckshot. Soft being like the bags of buckshot we used to buy, and was not as hard as even COWW air cooled. A quick search shows most swaged shot being 8-10 BHN. I would rather have hard shot with a nub of a sprue, than soft buckshot, which exists the barrel as a cube (or worse).

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have one of the little Harbor Freight Tumblers but I have to say I really like the pencil lead idea. That's what I come here for,,, well that, and to Vent!

Randy

[RogerDat]

I use a squeeze bottle of graphite and a FART to tumble for a couple of hours. Sprue is gone, shot is well covered. I cast out of hardball (2/6 Sn/Sb alloy BHN ~16) I think any more alloy starts to shrink the weight. I would also note that time invested in casting + cost of alloy makes it not terribly profitable use of my time if selling it, fine for own use. Buck shot is certainly pretty expensive and it doesn't take a huge amount of casting to produce a supply for self.

I may have to look into the mechanical pencil lead idea, also check tractor supply for refills or graphite in bulk. I would add if you have a hollow point or hollow base mold graphite on the pin really really helps a lot with having bullets drop off. Even just rubbing with a soft pencil makes a difference. Dab of powdered graphite on Q tip works very well. Want to try the graphite spray at some point. Just because have heard it works well and powdered is a game changer for dropping off of hollow point pins or Minnie ball mold pins.

Just an FYI - One can buy a .31 Lee Round Ball mold with 6 cavities at Track of the Wolf that is good for casting #1 buck shot. MP molds ran a group buy on some 8 cavity buck shot molds that were very nice ordering one of those direct might be an option. Lee also makes their "string of pearls" molds for buck shot. I think the shot from all of these benefit from getting the sprue tumbled off and graphite coating so they don't corrode and stick together in the shot shell.

Graphite does take some cleaning to get out of the drum after tumbling, probably not 100% gone either.
Roger

[RogerDat]

IMHO there is simply no honest answer here. I was talkin with a guy who was quoting numbers awearing crazy bhn. I kept asking CLIP ON WHEEL WEIGHTS.. He replied WW. Fineally someone got him to realize that WW is A GENERAL term and COWW was different then SOWW. S.O. Are MUCH SOFTER, and terfore "soffen" the entire pot if COWW!!

THEN, not all COWW are same hardness EITHER!!! So ya can see how we can get into the confusion.

Suffice it to say, it will be harder by a goodly amount droped into ICE WATER directly from mold. Colder and consistantly COLD the is waterthe better results will be realized.

BUT... My own careful sorting of COWW net about 12-14 AIR COOLED and 17-20 QUENCHED. MY METHODS.

This is one argument for using alloy to achieve a certain hardness. Method has to be consistent for consistent results. Controlling for changes or variables requires attention to the details such as those mentioned. The alloy calculator can help you work out the alloy, otherwise it is on you to use your method in a consistent and proven manner to achieve desired hardness.

Arsenic in small almost trace amounts from COWW lead has an impact on how water quenching effects the lead. Sb & Sn lead alloy is not going to come out the same as Sn & Sb plus As. The amount of As may vary so I think that makes control of what you can control like water temp and lead casting temp even more important.

[cwlongshot]

Agreed!

FYI. Most places that offer these buck shot molds are OUT OF SCTOCK across the web. Companies selling them for 90$ + have some. But why pay nearly 100$ for a 50$ mold????

Im wanting a #4 and 00 Buck molds Myself.

CW

[cwlongshot]

Answering myself here. But for info for others. Martys Molds has molds IN STOCK AND AVAILABLE!!

I grabbed a combo mold as my qualtities are not so large that less at a time is a large issue. So I grabbed a #4/00 Buck mold. One side is #4 other is 00! PERFECT for me and also 1/2 Cost as its one mold not two!

I cast some and now really see the sprue issues as I have t cast shot this way. Meaning My molds have been conventional one or two cav and had a spure cutter. These need be snipped a d that leaves a much larger sprue mark then Mine have in past!! Tumbling is required!!

Thanks for the knowledge guys!

CW

[Newtire]

I always thought it was the antimony that caused the boolits to harden when water dropping.

[meadmkr]

Add me to the list that tumbles buckshot in the HF rotary tumbler. Once tumbled to smooth over the sprue cut I clean them with acetone and then powder coat them - just like the "pretty colors" in the clear/transparent shells.

[gpidaho]

Add me to the list that tumbles buckshot in the HF rotary tumbler. Once tumbled to smooth over the sprue cut I clean them with acetone and then powder coat them - just like the "pretty colors" in the clear/transparent shells.

I'm another who likes to powder coat my buckshot. Not so much for the pretty colors but it opens up options as in using gas seals and fiber wad, nitro card stacks when the larger buckshot bulges the hull in a plastic wad. There is a handy silicone baking mat who's real purpose it to make your own chocolate chips. This mat has small half round pockets and works well for baking buckshot or round ball with out them sticking together. Gp

[meadmkr]

Besides the color when powder coating i believe it helps reduce the lead residue when handling them. I find stacking buckshot to maximize content/volume tends to be a bit more hands on than loading birdshot. I have a chunk of 3/8" aluminum plating under the silicone mat - I find it easier to transfer that with the heavier tray/shot combo to the ovens as the lightweight ones tend to be bumped/knocked over easier. Also adds some thermal mass which I believe helps with a more consistent temp.

[Muddydogs]

Agreed!

FYI. Most places that offer these buck shot molds are OUT OF SCTOCK across the web. Companies selling them for 90$ + have some. But why pay nearly 100$ for a 50$ mold????

Im wanting a #4 and 00 Buck molds Myself.

CW

Considering 8 pounds of buck shot is close to $40 if you can find it an $80 mold isn't really overpriced in my opinion. I've had my Marty's mold for a week and already cast 15 pounds of #1 buck. Heck 8 pounds of #1 buck would only load 93 of my rounds.

[cwlongshot]

Considering 8 pounds of buck shot is close to $40 if you can find it an $80 mold isn't really overpriced in my opinion. I've had my Marty's mold for a week and already cast 15 pounds of #1 buck. Heck 8 pounds of #1 buck would only load 93 of my rounds.

You miss the point.. Its a 50$ mold!! Why pay more??? Its "worth it" is personal decision. I wont pay hacker costs.

Martys molds are AWESOME and cost 100$. I have one now as well.

CW

[SweetMk]

I always thought it was the antimony that caused the boolits to harden when water dropping.

I could talk about this for a month! LOL!!
BUT, I will let an article excerpt try to summarize Sb (antimony) in lead as to the effect on hardness.

This article was discussing how to make a lead battery terminal stronger,, IMHO, boolits follow with similar needs.

"Solution Treating and Aging
Adding sufficient quantities of antimony to produce hypoeutectic lead-antimony alloys can attain useful strengthening of lead. Small amounts of arsenic have particularly strong effects on the age-hardening response of such alloys, and solution treating and rapid quenching prior to aging enhance these effects.

Hardness Stability. For most of the two-year period, the solution-treated specimens were harder than the quench-east specimens. Other investigations have also shown that alloys cooled slowly after casting are always softer than quenched alloys. The alloys with 2 and 4% Sb harden comparatively slowly, and the alloy containing 6% Sb appears to undergo optimum hardening."