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Thread: Brass Galling

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Brass Galling

    For member who Do not know what "Galling" is . It is the deposit of Metal adhering to another metal by way of rubbing or sliding. The question is how to removed Brass material from the inside of Sizing Dies or Forming dies.
    I have Noticed After forming , there is sometimes a tiny amount brass deposit on the inside of dies. It builds up and will form scratches. sometimes it is Unseen but it will build up.
    It is Not like lead build up In bores
    NRA Endowment Member
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  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    I would use one of the bore cleaners meant for jacketed bullets. Disassemble the die first, then use a sopping wet patch followed by suitable bore brush.

    It might take a few tries to get it all cleaned out.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I kept getting gaulling or scratches on 375 win brass using Lee dies. Cleaned the die with butches bore shine and still got gaulling. Split a dowel and inserted a piece of 400 wet or dry silicon carbide paper spritzed with some oil. Stuck it in the lathe and polished it then went to 600 grit and finished it off and cleaned out the die with Hoppes and a series patches. Still got scratches. Found the weep hole inside the die was the cause of the scratches. Bought a RCBS 3 die set for cheap here and no scratches. Lee die problem not brass problem. Frank

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Brand new Starline brass likes to gall. They send it to you completely clean, and I mean completely. A trip through a tumbler w/ some NuFinish or some case lube before sizing fixes the problem. It’s the only time I’ve had galling problems.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Never had the problem but a good polishing with 400 or higher Emery cloth followed by some Flitz should do wonders.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    1. The best way to deal with galling is to prevent it by using plenty of a high quality lube.

    2. To remove galling you can polish out a die - I have polished many dies.
    Then use plenty of lube.

    I polish dies at 250 to 400 rpm in a lathe with 320 to 500 grit wet or dry paper lubricated with a light oil or WD-40.
    EDG

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy sparkyv's Avatar
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    I've polished one out with my dremel using the polishiing wheels and the red polishiing compound just fine.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samari46 View Post
    I kept getting gaulling or scratches on 375 win brass using Lee dies. Cleaned the die with butches bore shine and still got gaulling. Split a dowel and inserted a piece of 400 wet or dry silicon carbide paper spritzed with some oil. Stuck it in the lathe and polished it then went to 600 grit and finished it off and cleaned out the die with Hoppes and a series patches. Still got scratches. Found the weep hole inside the die was the cause of the scratches. Bought a RCBS 3 die set for cheap here and no scratches. Lee die problem not brass problem. Frank
    Had the same problem with a Lee 8mm sizer die while reforming 06 to 8mm. Never could get it to stop. Use an RCBS die now for forming,

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    With gauling,, it is difficult to get gauling if lube is present,,
    The big problem, is if EITHER metal is too well polished, then lube can not adhere.

    So, the idea mentioned about tumbling new brass is a good one, roughen up that new surface.
    The die can also be too shiny,, 600 grit would be absolute max,, NEVER use 1000, grit.

    Then, one other thing,, I learned this when I built a carbon fiber processing machine, back in 1980.
    Speed can cause gauling,, TOO LITTLE SPEED!! if you move the brass into the die too slow, the lube has time to extrude away.
    When the lube is gone, you will be getting metal on metal contact.

    The carbon fiber machine was moving material VERY slowly through a furnace,, and the fabric was guided by rollers.
    The rollers were supported on what I thought were perfectly sized BALL BEARINGS,,
    Well, the balls needed to move fast enough to maintain a coating of lube.
    We were running so slow, the lube was pressed away, and the hard balls hit the hardened race.
    Some bearings would last a week, some would only last hours.

    We switched to impregnated bushings, the gauling was eliminated.

    Move the press handle FAST!!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    If you get galling or scratching caused by a weep hole you need to polish that area of the die interior until your 320 grit paper breaks the edges of the weep hole. Once the weep hole edges are broken they are below the rest of the surface and should not scratch your cases.


    After rough polishing with 240 or 320 grit wet or dry paper finish with 400 to 500 grit. Always polish the die wet - use a light oil such as WD4-40 or 3 in 1 oil or a light gun oil then wipe clean.
    EDG

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Sal, now let’s think this through ... why would you not clean the dies the same way you would clean a barrel bore with brass leading. Read how brass leading is remove from a barrel and do the same to the dies
    Last edited by John Boy; 10-20-2020 at 03:53 PM.
    Regards
    John

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    FL sizer dies are case hardened as hard as a file. There's really not much we can do that will actually scratch it. But galling it to make it seem scratched is quite easy.

    In the early sixties, as a noob reloader, I was as clumsy with case lubing as most. I took the oft mentioned "expert" caution, "Don't lube the neck or shoulder of bottle neck cases or you'll get lube dents" too literally so my neck sizing was being done dry; mistake.

    It didn't take long before my case necks (and even the body) began to show light vertical serrations that I took to mean my sizer had been scratched. The scratches grew so deep I was seriously considering buying a new sizer before an "old hand" told me about galling and how to remove the bits of galled brass; my "scratched" sizer was soon fully restored. Now, as a really old hand myself, I'll share it; "Dissolve the stuck brass away with ammonia."

    Ammonia will dissolve brass but it won't (of itself) harm steel. So, I just fill an empty pickle jar with enough ammonia to fully cover the stripped die body and let it soak in the covered jar until the galling is gone. That may take a few days or it may take a few weeks but, given time, it will do the job and it's very easy to do.

    All commercial case lubes (and a lot of substitutes) will prevent case galling (or sticking or dents) but the lube has to be applied right to work right and doing that right takes a bit of thoughtful experience.

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    Thank you for that information! I've recently inherited 223 dies which would "scratch" the cases after resizing . I took 800 grit sandpaper to it which reduced, but not eliminated the scratches. I will have to try the Ammonia trick.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlvabeach View Post
    ...inherited 223 dies which would "scratch" the cases after resizing . I took 800 grit sandpaper to it which reduced, but not eliminated the scratches.
    Some people are afraid to do that for fear of changing the dimensions of the die but that's not much of a hazard. To get an idea of what sandpaper does to case hardened high carbon steel, just try it on a file!

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlvabeach View Post
    I took 800 grit sandpaper to it which reduced, but not eliminated the scratches.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    To get an idea of what sandpaper does to case hardened high carbon steel, just try it on a file!
    There is a negative to polishing with a numerically high grit number.
    Above some number (it can vary with material) the surface gets so smooth, the surface can not "hold" lube.

    If you manage to get a 2,000 grit finish inside a sizing die, I would expect the die to gall easily.

    Polish away, but, if you can see a reflection,, hit the surface with a more coarse paper before using the die.
    The lube will thank you!!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    You need to polish the die some more.
    A lathe or drill motor spinning the case about 250 RPM will permit polishing longitudinal scratches across the scratch. This will get rid of the scratching.

    Quote Originally Posted by hlvabeach View Post
    Thank you for that information! I've recently inherited 223 dies which would "scratch" the cases after resizing . I took 800 grit sandpaper to it which reduced, but not eliminated the scratches. I will have to try the Ammonia trick.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
    EDG

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The fine finish in the die will work fine as long as you use as good lube on the cases. The lube provides a lubricant film barrier in the die just like bullet lube provides a lube barrier in your barrel.

    A company that manufactured gas springs (think hood or trunk lid assist) told me that the seals of the gas springs wore out faster with any finish coarser than a 3 RMS or smoother than a 3 RMS. The coarse finish would eat up the seal and the smoother finish would not carry enough lube. So based on that I would aim for a 10 RMS to a 3 RMS finish and use a good lube. Go look at your gas springs for a target surface texture.

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMk View Post
    There is a negative to polishing with a numerically high grit number.
    Above some number (it can vary with material) the surface gets so smooth, the surface can not "hold" lube.

    If you manage to get a 2,000 grit finish inside a sizing die, I would expect the die to gall easily.

    Polish away, but, if you can see a reflection,, hit the surface with a more coarse paper before using the die.
    The lube will thank you!!
    EDG

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