Reloading EverythingMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingRepackbox
Inline FabricationLee PrecisionWidenersRotoMetals2
PBcastco Load Data
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Lead Free Primers

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286

    Lead Free Primers

    A while back I heard they were developing lead free primers. Has there been any news news about them? Spent primers are one of high risks of lead contamination for reloaders.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    356
    My info is probably outdated,,, but I know people at ERDC tried some other compounds a good dedade ago and didnt find anything as completely acceptable.
    Interesting to note that M855A1 or the 'Green' environmental friendly 5.56 ammo that came out a decade ago is still lead styphnate primed.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,431
    Federal primers are now bismuth based.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    East Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,995
    European ammo is supposed to be loaded with non-toxic primers. The uniformity of the flame is why everything is using small primers.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286
    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    Federal primers are now bismuth based.
    It’s interesting to me to find out that Federal primers are lead free. Here is a link to an article that talks about them. However, there are comments criticizing the article as often incorrect. It would be interesting to know what other information people have about Federal lead free primers. If everything is true about them being lead free, are other manufacturers going to lead free also?

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/cartridg...-developments/

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286
    I’m surprised this post isn’t getting more responses. Lead poisoning is something we all need to be aware of and lead based primers can be a big source of it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    FLINTNFIRE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longview, Washington
    Posts
    1,653
    And if you practice moderate measures even it does not even enter in to a factor worth worry , I am sorry you dry tumble and separate in a shaker or basket in a closed room or you play with the dust , most of us who have been tested showed no elevated levels even after tearing down old painted walls where you get more exposure .

    Why do these threads keep coming up like we are going out of our way to expose ourselves to known easily mitigated risks ? I have some drinks while melting and casting and loading and I practice the known standards of wash rinse and do not expose to oxidized and minimize the dust , last test same as before minimal levels . Oh are they as reliable over the long term ? most are not , when the industry adopts them and makes them available we may switch till then I need long term reliability and cost , I can mitigate my exposure fairly easy and it does not cause me any risks YMMV and if it does do what you need to I will do what I do and I will monitor myself . Probably why it is not getting your level of expected responses , maybe it is not as large a issue as other things .

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    681
    With the ignorance of youth, I gave lead it's fair shot at poisoning me. Spent many happy days wandering woods and fields with a pump air rifle and always carried several pellets like a chew...in between lip and gum so I didn't have to dig in a pocket while keeping an eye on squirrels in the tree. Many decades have passed and I have yet to be any the worse for it although now I'd highly recommend against the practice.
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    7,237
    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I’m surprised this post isn’t getting more responses. Lead poisoning is something we all need to be aware of and lead based primers can be a big source of it.
    "Lead poisoning" fears from shooting/reloading/casting has gotten out of hand to the extent of "Chicken Little" thinking. I think 90% of forum posts on the subject are second, or fifth hand quotes from unknown sources. Having reloaded for over 40 years, I have yet to see any suggestion that "lead" primers, either during firing or handling spent primers has contributed the least to elevated blood/lead levels. Factual reports not "my BIL's uncle met a guy that read it in a book when he was sitting in an airport waiting room".

    My only example is myself, which is only one in specific circumstances. I started casting sinkers in my teens, I started casting bullets in roughly '87. I started reloading, with a Lee Loader in 1969 and handled every spent primer after depriming. I used indoor shooting ranges for 25+ years mainly pre EPA "regulations". Add to that, I worked downtown Los Angeles for 25 years. My employer provided annual physicals, including blood work (mostly a CYA move) and my blood/lead levels did get a bit high, but well below a "normal to moderate" threshold. Am I the epitome of clean living, healthy individual? Nope I drank, smoked and abused my body since I was 15. I ate what I felt like and paid no attention to any of the "health warnings" or internet experts latest "findings" going around. My blood lead levels were considered normal.

    I have read though, on a trusted internet site (Dr. Graniuls McMaven, III) that he has seen many cases of brain cancer and elevated lead levels directly related to computer monitor use (LCD, LED and CRT). Testing was conducted in a "secret lab" so the monitor manufacturers wouldn't find him and destroy his findings, which would threaten their sales. The tests were conducted on two Tijuana street rats, sex unknown. Dr. McMaven and his assistant, only know as Roberto for security reasons, fed the rats a mixture of bat guano, tequila (no limes), and raw oysters (harvested at the local San Onofre nuclear power plant). The rats were placed in front of an old IBM computer screen and watched pornography 24 hrs per day for 11 days straight. The rats were killed and a necropsy was performed and both rats had evidence that if the testing continued for an extended (unknown) length of time, and the rats lived, there might be a possible link to brain cancer. Yes, I read that and I'm spreading the word! Beware of killing your brain from sitting in front of your computer. Lord help us all...

    Silly? Yep, but sort of the same "lead poisoning scare posts" I've seen on line...
    Last edited by mdi; 09-19-2020 at 12:27 PM.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    2,717
    I used to watch Mike Holmes renovation shows on TV. I considered him to be quite knowledgeable on that subject. The last time I watched him, he was showing a young guy some Mickey-Mouse plumbing under a kitchen sink. There was a section of lead pipe therein. The young guy reached toward the pipe and Mike grabbed his arm telling him the lead was a major risk and not to touch it! Haven't watched him since!

    Personally, I have been fooling around with lead since I was in grade school and I am 81 years old now. I recognize lead can poison you but if you take reasonable sanitary precautions, you will be fine!
    R.D.M.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    300
    A lot of our meals were cooked with lead shot still in the meat, rabbit or squirrel dumplings were cooked for a long time simmering over a low heat, the shot was then picked out at the table while eating and some was no doubt swallowed, we also played with mercury polishing dimes and stuff carried the stuff around all day even at school. I am 77 years old now and my knees and back hurt some times, probably because of that stuff

    Bill

  12. #12
    Boolit Master JMax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    540
    After decades of casting, reloading and shooting plus being a LEO firearms instructor my lead tests have been in the normal range. The department had an annual lead test. After an extended melt down and rendering of hundreds of pounds making alloy followed by casting a couple hundred pounds my lead level was high normal. I do wash my hands after reloading, casting and tumbling brass. I am careful and do not smoke and shoot a couple hundred CF rounds a week. So remember IMO “when in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout”

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    3,783
    The new green lead free primers have a small rate of life unlike the normal lead included primers. Some thing to think about.

    Some ranges require the new lead free some do not.

    The PD in the town my shop was in used .357SIG and were told they had to have lead free primers and full coated bullets for the class. My shop converted their hand guns to 40S&W and supplied the ammo they need for the academy. When the were sworn in we replaced their 40S$W to the 357SIG that the rest carried.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10,564
    aluminum burns real well and heats up the bismuth which has more weight and plows through the powder, igniting it. Bismuth melts lower and stays liquid longer. Nitro is the primer igniter. All the oxides are still toxic.
    Whatever!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286
    Can someone answer these questions?
    Are all Federal primers lead free today?
    Do other brands make lead free primers?
    How are the packages and primers marked?
    Do lead free primers have a shorter shelf life? Are there any articles about this?

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

    dragon813gt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in SE PA
    Posts
    9,989
    Fiocchi heavy metal free primers have a fifteen year shelf life. That’s what a search said. But I seem to remember the shelf life being shorter in the past, like eleven years. Or I could be wrong on that and it’s always been fifteen years. Regardless, Fiocchi heavy metal free primers have a shelf life that is labeled on the box.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


    Burnt Fingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    1,938
    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Can someone answer these questions?
    Are all Federal primers lead free today?
    Do other brands make lead free primers?
    How are the packages and primers marked?
    Do lead free primers have a shorter shelf life? Are there any articles about this?
    Federal has a new primer technology. But the primers being sold do not use this technology. When they are they will have the Catalyst name on them

    Fiocchi makes a lead free primer, but they aren't currently available.

    At this time I don't think a reloader is going to be able to source lead free primers.
    NRA Benefactor.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    13,603
    And if the solution is another heavy metal in the primer what have we accomplished??
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    332
    [QUOTE=mdi;4987959]"Lead poisoning" fears from shooting/reloading/casting has gotten out of hand to the extent of "Chicken Little" thinking. /QUOTE]

    Maybe the fear comes out of CA where EVERYTHING is going to kill you. I saw a California cancer warning on a chunk of aluminum bar stock for God's sake!
    OTOH, SOMETHING IS having deleterious effects on mental acuity in the "Golden(?) State"!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,652
    The problem comes in trying to appreciate the practical implications of some measured amount of increased risk. If, for instance, you could prove that some exposure or activity increased health problems ten fold, but that new rate is only, say, ten in a hundred thousand people instead of one in a hundred thousand without the exposure, then an individual with the exposure still only has a 0.01% chance of getting sick. It's more a public health issue: in a country of 300 million people, if everybody had the exposure, then the number of new sick people would be 30,000. Is it worth action to reduce risk and prevent those 30,000 people from getting sick? If the increased health problem is just a temporary, itchy rash, then probably not, especially if exposure in the general population is actually uncommon to start off with. If the health consequences are death and permanent disability, then more likely yes, especially if exposure is potentially very common and easy to mitigate.

    In the case of lead, the issues are how much lead exposure leads to how much lead uptake into the human body, and, in turn, what and how much that affects human health. As the testimonials here and in other threads show, the levels from exposure vary and so do the effects, ranging from significant symptoms to none appreciated, even with high levels. As pointed out, prevention and mitigation help prevent lead uptake. Lower blood lead levels are associated with fewer symptoms in general, though, so it makes sense to take precautions. How much is a matter of personal choice and, in the eyes of others, public health policy.

    I also agree with DonHowe on the labeling of everything as cancer causing. The cancer risk found for some things labeled is pretty small, though much larger for others. Labeling everything desensitizes people to the point where they ignore or can't identify the greater and significant risks that do exist.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check