Getting started with reloading for my S&W Model 10-5?

[VariableRecall]

I start with my brass in a Tupperware. I pick one up and charge it either with dipper or powder measure, then place it in a loading block. I check them with a flashlight. No reason to use a dowel or pencil in my mind.

It'll do you well to do a little experiment, charge 5, with one being double. Either in a loading block or lined up on the table, look with your light and you will spot it easily. Dump all 5 back.

That's a sound plan! I need to familiarize myself what a problem will look like! I believe that I should really get started with measuring my powder as soon as I can. I've got a congested week but I may be able to spare some time on the weekend for it. It's going to take some figuring out, but doing this sort of experimentation in the process of measuring powder is something I should do before I seat powdered filled bullets into brass.

[Cargo]

I started loading in March and also started with .38 special. It is a great round to reload for.

I started with, and still use, a Lee Hand Press kit. It came with the Ram Prime, lube, funnel etc.

I use a set of $2 funnels I bought off of Amazon because I like the funnel neck to go into the throat of the case.

I use Lee Carbide Dies because they were the least expensive and I knew they would work.

I did buy a loading block but could have simply used a pc of drilled 2x8 and been just as happy.

I went with a small battery operated digital scale for portability and storage.

I reload at the dining room table due to current space limitations so I purchased a large bamboo butchers block to use as a work station. It works very nicely at catching stray powder and protecting the table.

Personal opinion if storage is at a premium. Find one powder you like that can be used for practice lead bullets as well as good defensive semi-jacketed bullets.

[JoeJames]

One thing that is an essential to me, but took awhile to realize it is a powder trickler. Use it in conjunction with your scale, so you don't have to keep dumping it back if it is a bit light.

Since you are using Win 231, I looked back through my notes and in my Model 67 S&W 4", it seemed to like 4.1 grains of Win 231 with a 160 grain lead SWC. I chronographed them and they averaged out at 788 fps.

All revolvers are a tad different in loads and velocities, and all manuals vary a bit also.
My old Speer manual says with a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 792 fps; a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.4 grains of 231 = 878 fps (pretty hot load in my opinion);
my Lyman manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 837 fps.
Hornady manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.1 grains of 231 = 800 fps.

I would not exceed 4.1 grains of Win 231, in my opinion.

However, my favorite pistol powder is Bullseye. But it is very, very easy to double charge; since a regular charge of Bullseye just dusts the pan, and you really cannot detect a double charge very easily by just looking into the case.

[VariableRecall]

One thing that is an essential to me, but took awhile to realize it is a powder trickler. Use it in conjunction with your scale, so you don't have to keep dumping it back if it is a bit light.

Since you are using Win 231, I looked back through my notes and in my Model 67 S&W 4", it seemed to like 4.1 grains of Win 231 with a 160 grain lead SWC. I chronographed them and they averaged out at 788 fps.

All revolvers are a tad different in loads and velocities, and all manuals vary a bit also.
My old Speer manual says with a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 792 fps; a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.4 grains of 231 = 878 fps (pretty hot load in my opinion);
my Lyman manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 837 fps.
Hornady manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.1 grains of 231 = 800 fps.

I would not exceed 4.1 grains of Win 231, in my opinion.

However, my favorite pistol powder is Bullseye. But it is very, very easy to double charge; since a regular charge of Bullseye just dusts the pan, and you really cannot detect a double charge very easily by just looking into the case.

I'm planning on starting with the averaged minimum recommended amount of powder for the bullet weight from a couple of different manuals, around 3.5 to 3.6 grains.

Keep in mind that the Model 67 is a modern revolver rated for .38+p with a bull barrel. My model 10 has the older style pencil barrel (one of the reasons why i got it), so I'd prefer not to overcharge the fella.

From the loading data that I've gathered, 4.0 grains of 231 is pretty close to the edge of safe loading for standard .38 Special for that size of bullet. Not to mention, 750+fps at 3.6 grains give or take will still put the bullet at a reasonable speed towards what needs to be leaded.
Getting close to a dangerous overcharge for an extra 50 feet per second or so isn't as much of an advantage.

By the way, I did in fact purchase a powder trickler for the very purpose of making sure I get exact with my loads.

[JoeJames]

I'm planning on starting with the averaged minimum recommended amount of powder for the bullet weight from a couple of different manuals, around 3.5 to 3.6 grains.

Keep in mind that the Model 67 is a modern revolver rated for .38+p with a bull barrel. My model 10 has the older style pencil barrel (one of the reasons why i got it), so I'd prefer not to overcharge the fella.

From the loading data that I've gathered, 4.0 grains of 231 is pretty close to the edge of safe loading for standard .38 Special for that size of bullet. Not to mention, 750+fps at 3.6 grains give or take will still put the bullet at a reasonable speed towards what needs to be leaded.
Getting close to a dangerous overcharge for an extra 50 feet per second or so isn't as much of an advantage.

By the way, I did in fact purchase a powder trickler for the very purpose of making sure I get exact with my loads.

I have shot the same load in my old Model 15, in my old S&W Victory Model, but there is certainly nothing wrong with going with 3.6 grains, and it is commendable; as I have certainly never been accused of shooting hot loads. Since you have a fixed sight Model 10, you should enjoy figuring out what load will shoot to point of aim. At least I did with my old fixed sight 32 S&W Hand Ejectors. For them I used the loads recommended by Hatcher in his book: The Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers published in 1935. I used his data on factory loads that the old 32 HE's were regulated with. And my loads shot to point of aim.

He states in there the factory load for the 38 Special with a 158 grain bullet was with 3.6 grains of Bullseye and the velocity was 860 fps out of a six inch barrel.
The interesting thing, and it is counter-intuitive, is that generally a slower load will shoot higher at say 15 yards (dwell time) than a faster load with the same weight boolit.

[VariableRecall]

I have shot the same load in my old Model 15, in my old S&W Victory Model, but there is certainly nothing wrong with going with 3.6 grains, and it is commendable; as I have certainly never been accused of shooting hot loads. Since you have a fixed sight Model 10, you should enjoy figuring out what load will shoot to point of aim. At least I did with my old fixed sight 32 S&W Hand Ejectors. For them I used the loads recommended by Hatcher in his book: The Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers published in 1935. I used his data on factory loads that the old 32 HE's were regulated with. And my loads shot to point of aim.

He states in there the factory load for the 38 Special with a 158 grain bullet was with 3.6 grains of Bullseye and the velocity was 860 fps out of a six inch barrel.
The interesting thing, and it is counter-intuitive, is that generally a slower load will shoot higher at say 15 yards (dwell time) than a faster load with the same weight boolit.

I don't plan on target shooting with my Model 10, but I'd certainly like to be accurate with it in double action at ranges expected for self defense, around 5-20 yards. The single action trigger is some of the best I've had but I'm going to count on double action to save my life in an emergency. DA is what I'm going to focus on as I become familiarized with my revolver.
That, and the ammunition I'm going to reload for it so I can become more familiarized in the first place.

Also, one thing I did notice when I took it out to the range was that I was occasionally shooting about an two inches to the left at 10 yards, and a little high when trying to hit center of mass in DA. Should I have been tightening my grip in that situation? It wasn't my factory ammo, that's for sure.

[JoeJames]

I never shoot DA. If it was single action, I'd say grip, and placement of your finger on the trigger. Might experiment with those. A Smith trigger kind of hones itself over the years. I have a 22 caliber kitgun that I've had 35 or so years, and it's down to about 2 1/2 pounds single action. My Model 15-3 made about 1970 (probably about the same age as your 10-5) is down to 3 1/8 pounds. BTW what is the serial number of yours? You can sub x's for the last 3 numerals if you wish, and I can tell you what year it was made.

[VariableRecall]

I never shoot DA. If it was single action, I'd say grip, and placement of your finger on the trigger. Might experiment with those. A Smith trigger kind of hones itself over the years. I have a 22 caliber kitgun that I've had 35 or so years, and it's down to about 2 1/2 pounds single action. My Model 15-3 made about 1970 (probably about the same age as your 10-5) is down to 3 1/8 pounds. BTW what is the serial number of yours? You can sub x's for the last 3 numerals if you wish, and I can tell you what year it was made.

My Model 10's serial number is D274624. The state already knows who it's owner now, so there's no reason to keep it secret.
As shown in the photo, there is a good deal of carry wear but very little shooting wear. the ratcheting teeth on the cylinder are in great shape.

[JoeJames]

Manufactured 1969-1970. As I said, about like my Model 15-3.

[VariableRecall]

Manufactured 1969-1970. As I said, about like my Model 15-3.

Considering your model 15 was produced around the same time, It's pretty interesting that mine is in an older style. Perhaps the previous owner could get a sweet deal on a brand new Model 10 for a better price forgoing the upgrades of other contemporary models. Kind of the same deal for me, too!

I've looked on Smith and Wesson's website and their newly manufactured Model 10's have the apparently hated trigger lock and MSRP for $799, but they have the Bull Barrel and are compatible with hotter loads.

[JoeJames]

I would not concern myself about the bull barrel vs. the pencil barrel particularly on any revolver. On old pre-World War I S&W Hand Ejectors, I would worry more about the cylinder strength. Heat treating was not done then. I shoot my 32 S&W Long pre-war H.E.'s, but keep the loads moderate. By the time your Model 10 was made (1969-1970), I would not worry about cylinder strength with the moderate loads in the manuals. In my experience and from my reading, the barrel is not going to let go unless there is a blockage (Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers). Hatcher made a study of what it took to blow the cylinder of M&P type S&W's (1935)(the M&P was the predecessor of the Model 10) and if I recall correctly, even back then, often took 3 or 4 rounds loaded with double charges of Bullseye powder before the cylinder would blow up; sometimes the first round though. That's why many have mentioned avoiding double charges in this thread!

BTW Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers is available at Kindle Books, and it is my main source for replicating factory loads for my 32 H.E.'s and the 38 S&W, and others. Also Sixguns by Elmer Keith is also available in the Kindle Store. Read them and you will get a better foundation. I also bought Hatcher's book in paperback through Amazon.

[VariableRecall]

I would not concern myself about the bull barrel vs. the pencil barrel particularly on any revolver. On old pre-World War I S&W Hand Ejectors, I would worry more about the cylinder strength. Heat treating was not done then. I shoot my 32 S&W Long pre-war H.E.'s, but keep the loads moderate. By the time your Model 10 was made (1969-1970), I would not worry about cylinder strength with the loads I mentioned. In my experience and from my reading, the barrel is not going to let go unless there is a blockage (Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers). Hatcher made a study of what it took to blow the cylinder of M&P type S&W's (1935)(the M&P was the predecessor of the Model 10) and if I recall correctly, even back then, it took 3 or 4 rounds loaded with double charges of Bullseye powder before the cylinder would blow up.

BTW Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers is available at Kindle Books, and it is my main source for replicating factory loads for my 32 H.E.'s and the 38 S&W, and others. Also Sixguns by Elmer Keith is also available in the Kindle Store. Read them and you will get a better foundation. I also bought Hatcher's book in paperback through Amazon.

Oh! that book is available on Kindle!? Nice! Thanks for the clarification regarding the barrels. That Hatcher fellow is a lot braver than I am. Any double charge would likely reduce my revolver cylinder's life expectancy, so that's something to keep in mind.

So, theoretically, would it be possible to take a brand new manufactured Model 10 cylinder, and slide it onto the yoke, would it work just fine or need to be tuned by a gunsmith?

[JoeJames]

Oh! that book is available on Kindle!? Nice! Thanks for the clarification regarding the barrels. That Hatcher fellow is a lot braver than I am. Any double charge would likely reduce my revolver cylinder's life expectancy, so that's something to keep in mind.

So, theoretically, would it be possible to take a brand new manufactured Model 10 cylinder, and slide it onto the yoke, would it work just fine or need to be tuned by a gunsmith?

I would not even consider changing cylinders at your stage of the game. I have been shooting revolvers for about 58 years; Smiths and Rugers mostly, and that thought has never entered my mind. Well not in this context anyway - maybe on converting a S&W Model 28 357 to 44 Special. Re: Hatcher - he tested cylinder strength shooting it in a rest. He certainly was not holding it and shooting double loads at the time. But, all in all it is good you are cautious, most young'uns want to hot rods their pistol loads, or just don't know any better.

I remember ages ago the local sheriff's office got in some reloading gear; a couple of deputies were trying it out, and called another deputy on how much pistol powder to use. He said "just fill the case up to where there is space left for the bullet", thinking they were joking. They loaded a few up and took their new rounds across the levee to test them in an issue Model 66 S&W. First round was more than a little shocking! They had enough sense to not shoot anymore, but it was a testament to the strength of a S&W Model 66.

[VariableRecall]

I would not even consider changing cylinders at your stage of the game.

My Model 10's cylinder is in perfect shape to be honest, and I wouldn't be changing it any time soon. Not for a couple of decades! It was just a thought. It would take quite an absurd amount of wear and tear of normal shooting to need a new cylinder. I'd assume you would need a new barrel first!

[JoeJames]

Fixing to light out of the office, but have an I-Pad at home. Any other questions, just ask on here. One thing I did think of ... with your very moderate loads, avoid loading jacketed bullets. I have had it happen once with a Ruger 44 Special. Loading a 240 grain JHP sitting on 7 grains of Unique. It just didn't sound right when I shot it, and I checked the barrel. The jhp had not exited the barrel, but was sitting there about flush with the end of the barrel, kind of like a groundhog in his burrow. That could have had a dramatic effect on the barrel. It just takes more force to get a jacketed bullet down and out the barrel, then it does a lead cast boolitt

[VariableRecall]

Fixing to light out of the office, but have an I-Pad at home. Any other questions, just ask on here. One thing I did think of ... with your very moderate loads, avoid loading jacketed bullets. I have had it happen once with a Ruger 44 Special. Loading a 240 grain JHP sitting on 7 grains of Unique. It just didn't sound right when I shot it, and I checked the barrel. The jhp had not exited the barrel, but was sitting there about flush with the end of the barrel, kind of like a groundhog in his burrow. That could have had a dramatic effect on the barrel. It just takes more force to get a jacketed bullet down and out the barrel, then it does a lead cast boolitt

Thank you for the tip! I was wondering why there was so much more powder recommended for even lower weighted JHP and other jacketed loads.

[JoeJames]

I thought about that, and that's why I mentioned it. You were worried about the barrel blowing up, and really a squib lodged in the barrel is the only practical way that could happen; otherwise the cylinder would let go first with a double charge, but the barrel would mostly be ok. The rest of the revolver would be a bit of a mess though, along with your hand.

[VariableRecall]

I thought about that, and that's why I mentioned it. You were worried about the barrel blowing up, and really a squib lodged in the barrel is the only practical way that could happen; otherwise the cylinder would let go first with a double charge, but the barrel would mostly be ok. The rest of the revolver would be a bit of a mess though, along with your hand.

So basically putting hotter loads on the far end of recommendations in load data through my revolver will shorten its life-span rather than result in immediate failure? It's still something I don't want to do, but it's certainly something to keep in mind in terms of caring for it so my kids can use it safely in the future. (once I get some)

[JoeJames]

As the manuals all say maximum recommended loads should be approached with caution. I try to find the most accurate load. With my Model 15-3 and my Model 67 4.1 gr of Win 231 or 3.7 grains of Bullseye are usually fairly accurate with a 158-160 grain semi-wadcutters and run between 820 - 850 fps. Loads at or above the max may not just shorten the life of your revolver, but might result in immediate failure. Read up on signs of pressure like flattened primers, cases hard to eject, etc.

[VariableRecall]

As the manuals all say maximum recommended loads should be approached with caution. I try to find the most accurate load. With my Model 15-3 and my Model 67 4.1 gr of Win 231 or 3.7 grains of Bullseye are usually fairly accurate with a 158-160 grain semi-wadcutters and run between 820 - 850 fps. Loads at or above the max may not just shorten the life of your revolver, but might result in immediate failure. Read up on signs of pressure like flattened primers, cases hard to eject, etc.

Well, for a 158gr lead SWC that I've got in my inventory, 3.6 to 3.8 grains of Win 231 will do nicely. Even better, I've now purchased the Lee Powder Dipper set, so I can dump around 3.5 grains of Win 231 (WOW! That's a tiny amount), and use my powder trickler to adjust to the exact load that I want out of the loads I am working with.