Getting started with reloading for my S&W Model 10-5?

[VariableRecall]

This entire thread is weird.

I'm very thankful to start out on the right foot with all the advice and help you all have given me. Now, to desperately search for Small Pistol Primers at a reasonable price!

Once I start to get the hang of this, I will definitely post pictures of my setup and results, but it may be a while until I get to the range or begin assembling my first ready to roll cartridge.

[Scott.M]

SR will work too

[VariableRecall]

SR will work too

You mean Small Rifle? Can anyone else confirm that they would work as well? I'd rather not learn the hard way as a first time re-loader. I've got a very kind landlord to keep in good standing with.

[Outpost75]

SR will work too

If your revolver will set them off. Most police service handguns with factory-stock actions "should", but any having after-market, reduced power mainsprings, bobbed hammers or other mods which reduce hammer arc throw or striker energy may cause misfires. Hammerless coil-sring S&W J-frames are liable to misfire with SRs right out of the box.

The only way to be sure is to fire 100 rounds of your carry ammunition in double-action mode. If it runs 100% with no drips or errors call it good. But if you get even ONE misfire, don't use that ammo.

The US government and the ammunition manufacturers all have an allowable misfire rate of about one in a million. This is assuming that the primers were properly loaded, stored (not exposed to heat, cold, moisture, oil etc.) In reality the ignition rate is much better than this, but one in a million is a nice round number to presume. An explosives engineer at Picatinny arsenal told me ten years ago in the previous year of in-house QA testing of conventionally-primed (non-electric) ammunition of cal. .50 and below from the combined efforts of government labs and government-supervised contractor testing they had experienced five misfires in 15,500,000 rounds that were not attributable to ignition mechanics, equating to one in three million plus rounds.

[VariableRecall]

If your revolver will set them off. Most police service handguns with factory-stock actions "should", but any having after-market, reduced power mainsprings, bobbed hammers or other mods which reduce hammer arc throw or striker energy may cause misfires. Hammerless coil-sring S&W J-frames are liable to misfire with SRs right out of the box.

As far as I know the mainspring and hammer are stock. From the brass I've shot with factory ammo (about 36 rounds) The hammer slams into the primers with gusto, leaving a hefty dent in the primer case after firing. This fella's a Model 10 K-frame.

Should I get a smaller portion (about 100 primers) of Small Rifle Primers as a sort of trial run if I find any for a good price?

If this experiment does not work, how exactly could I safely extract the bad primers considering that they would be LIVE as I attempt to remove them?

[Bazoo]

Small pistol, small pistol magnum, and small rifle primers are all the same size. The thickness of the metal used to make the cup is different in rifle vs pistol primers, with rifle being thicker to withstand higher rifle primers.

You can use rifle primers in handgun cartridges if that's all that's available. You can decap live primers as you would spent primers. There is a small chance they will go off during decapping. I've decapped 100+ live primers and not had one go off. But knowing they could, I'm prepared.

If I couldn't get small pistol primers, I'd use small pistol magnum if available.

[VariableRecall]

If I couldn't get small pistol primers, I'd use small pistol magnum if available.

I know for a fact that I should not be using +P rounds in my Model 10-5. The barrel is its original size and pinned in place, so I don't want to over pressure the fella.

how much would magnum primers affect pressure?

[Outpost75]

I know for a fact that I should not be using +P rounds in my Model 10-5. The barrel is its original size and pinned in place, so I don't want to over pressure the fella.

how much would magnum primers affect pressure?

Magnum primers will be perfectly OK as long as you stay 10% below published maximum loads, this is about a 0.3-0.4 grain charge reduction in .38 Special with fast-burning powders like Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231, HP38 etc. I use 3.2 grains of Bullseye with magnum primers and a cast 148 DEWC at 1.20" cartridge OAL vs. 3.5 grains for a standard-pressure, but "full-charge" wadcutter load.

[VariableRecall]

Magnum primers will be perfectly OK as long as you stay 10% below published maximum loads, this is about a 0.3-0.4 grain charge reduction in .38 Special with fast-burning powders like Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231...

I have 1lb of Winchester 231 powder, so I'll be certain to keep that in mind. I think I may create a thread somewhere else asking for an offer of primers so long as they can take paypal.

[JimB..]

The OP is as green as the grass, all he knows is that he wants to reload, he’s just figuring out which end of the case the powder goes in. All the talk about going off book with other primers is not good for him. He has 100 primed cases, coach him on getting from there to a safe load with his w231, encourage him to read the front of a reloading manual and ask questions. There are guys that reload for years and never go off book, here you’re recommending it to a guy who hasn’t loaded a single round.

He has one primer (CCI SPP), one powder (w231), one bullet (I forget) and one reloading manual (maybe lyman 46). Please encourage him to do well with those components before experimenting.

Sorry for being bitchy, I know that all ya’ll are just trying to be helpful and that swapping primers and rebuilding a load is, like everything else I suppose, safe when done wisely.

[farmbif]

I'm with jimb on this.
probably best to stick with small pistol primers. 231 is a ball powder so small pistol magnum primers is not out of the question but is probably not needed in 38 special he's not in the arctic or anything like that. and current load data from winchester doesn't call for magnum primer in 38spl loads
ive got an old smith and Wesson model 10 and I'm pretty darn careful to keep the loads I shoot in it below the +P level. its a lot of fun to shoot and prevents any wear and tear.

[VariableRecall]

Sorry for being bitchy, I know that all ya’ll are just trying to be helpful and that swapping primers and rebuilding a load is, like everything else I suppose, safe when done wisely.

I'm testing out and seating the various Lee Carbide dies in the hand press, and the Sizing Die's decapper has been slid upward after a poor attempt of de-priming. (my first one). I don't have a 3/4's wrench but i did have some channeled pliers that fit around it. Just about how much force do I need to get that decapping pin reset?

[VariableRecall]

If I may also add, I'm practicing the fit and finish of the die work with UN-PRIMED and EMPTY brass, (Can't size right now because the primer puncher is down for the count at the moment). So, I'm testing the fit and expansion that doesn't harm or scrape off the Hi-Tek finish, as well as trying to fit the bullet, and finding a crimp that is mostly flush while seating the bullet right in the exact place it needs to be every time.

I may not have the first step running, but I'm certainly going to move through the rest before I trust the job with brass filled with powder.

[Bazoo]

You have to get the lee decapping rod fairly tight. You won't be able to break it.

[JimB..]

What Bazoo said, far too tight for you to be holding the die in one hand and tightening it with channel locks in the other.

[VariableRecall]

far too tight for you to be holding the die in one hand and tightening it with channel locks in the other.

Would a pair of vice grips in one hand and adding leverage with a lengthened ratchet on the decapping screw work? Right now the pin is resting above that screw, and currently that makes the pin stick out far below where it needs to in order to completely punch out the pin.

In other news, I did manage to get to within 0.006 inches of my intended Cartridge overall length with the adjustment I've been making with the Seating/Crimping die.
Basically, I'm taking empty brass that I've widened and just seating them with a sacrificial bullet since they are getting pretty beat up by this process. Thankfully I've got hundreds more. I'd much rather repeatedly pull and re-seat cartridges that don't have any powder in them.

[farmbif]

might want to go to a pawn shop that has bins of loose tools and get a couple wrenches that will fit rather than marring your new dies with vice grips and pliers

[VariableRecall]

might want to go to a pawn shop that has bins of loose tools and get a couple wrenches that will fit rather than marring your new dies with vice grips and pliers

That might be a smart move. I've got a thrift store nearby I could visit before heading to the hardware store. I'm certain I'll be able to find some of what I need before heading to somewhere a little more expensive. Either way, I'm getting the hang of these dies before I start worrying about putting powder through anything in particular.

[JimB..]

The thing you’re trying to tighten is the collet for the decapping pin. Loosen it and push the pin down until it sticks out about 1/4” below the end of the die. This will probably make it about flush with the collet. Then tighten the collet as much as you reasonably can. I hold the die in a vise by the flats and then use a box wrench to tighten the collet, but I’m old and have both space and tools that you don’t have yet.

BTW, decapping pins are a consumable product. You’ll decap (remove spent primers from) thousands of cases without issue, then you’ll bend/break a decapping pin and then break another in a few minutes. They are cheap, it’s worth having a couple spares and Murphy’s law applies, if you have spares you’re less likely to need them than if you do not.

[VariableRecall]

The thing you’re trying to tighten is the collet for the decapping pin. Loosen it and push the pin down until it sticks out about 1/4” below the end of the die. This will probably make it about flush with the collet. Then tighten the collet as much as you reasonably can. I hold the die in a vise by the flats and then use a box wrench to tighten the collet, but I’m old and have both space and tools that you don’t have yet.

BTW, decapping pins are a consumable product. You’ll decap (remove spent primers from) thousands of cases without issue, then you’ll bend/break a decapping pin and then break another in a few minutes. They are cheap, it’s worth having a couple spares and Murphy’s law applies, if you have spares you’re less likely to need them than if you do not.

Hey there Jim! I've managed to get a 3/4th inch wrench and moving the decapping pin back into place just fine. Took a lot of elbow grease but I managed. Decapped all of my shot brass. Looks like I'll need to do that with my loaner brass as well. I've managed to get my bullet seating to 1.448 almost every time: only 0.003 above the COL that's in the Load Data I'm using. Is that an acceptable COL for a revolver? Better to have a tiny bit more room that far too little.

However, One problem has arisen as I'm attempting to pull these seated bullets to check for any damage to the hi-tek coating during seating. My Bullet puller hasn't been able to yank them apart. I'm a little worried that my neighbors above and below me would not appreciate loud, sudden, thumping sounds of wood against plastic. Usually a swift tap gets it out easily, but these past couple of loads without powder or caps have refused to budge. Any tips on how to deafen the sound or materials that will allow me to slam the puller into something more quietly? I'm currently using an end table with a dish-rag over the impact zone in my bedroom that's made out of particle board since I don't want to mar my solid wood kitchen table.

I was thinking that I could use the end of a hard rubber mallet as an impact surface. The only problem is that the area is smaller, and on some parts, not very flat.