Chinese f35 copy

[oldred]

First off this is purely a technical question and NOT a political question so please let's not make it one.

Apparently (more like obviously) according to the news today the Chinese are stealing technical data from the F35 project so this brings me to a question that has been bugging me for years. Why can't this data be shared between necessary parties/facilities within a closed system similar to but COMPLETELY different and cut off from the World Wide network instead of being world wide accessible and protected only by fallible firewalls and passcodes? If hackers/bad actors could not physically access the system then there could be no hacking to protect from? Am I totally off-base here?

Again PLEASE no politics

[Der Gebirgsjager]

How can this not be political? The Chinese Govt. and the PLA infiltrate agents into our defense industries (and most other industries as well) and steal technological secrets which they pass to Communist China. Watch the news...every now and then they catch one and imprison or deport him. About half the time they are native born Americans that were "recruited". Often someone who came here as a foreign student and assimilated into the economy. If these moles are undetected and considered good employees they would have access to your proposed closed system, and get the information anyway. Also, they access technological information from weapon systems we have given to dubious allies as foreign aid. Since the Chinese believe that they are destined to dominate the world, and that the U.S. is in their way, how can it not be political?

[jdfoxinc]

The world wide web started as a military only network, expanded to universities, then downhill to porn commercials etc......

[dtknowles]

First off this is purely a technical question and NOT a political question so please let's not make it one.

Apparently (more like obviously) according to the news today the Chinese are stealing technical data from the F35 project so this brings me to a question that has been bugging me for years. Why can't this data be shared between necessary parties/facilities within a closed system similar to but COMPLETELY different and cut off from the World Wide network instead of being world wide accessible and protected only by fallible firewalls and passcodes? If hackers/bad actors could not physically access the system then there could be no hacking to protect from? Am I totally off-base here?

Again PLEASE no politics

Top Secret data under proper controls is not accessible via the internet.

[Winger Ed.]

This sort of theft is done directly by people with access to it on secure systems, or working in & on the projects themselves.

[Thunder Stick]

It’s plain old spying. They got the F35 information the same way the Soviets got the atom bomb secrets in the 1940’s.

[mrbigsteel]

The systems are isolated, but spies can bridge the "air gap" with a thumb drive.

[bakerjw]

Network security needs to be constantly analyzed and maintained. As an IT person, I have contracted in to Caterpillar for a large part of my adult life. My contractor days are long behind me (I hope) but I still keep in touch with my friends back in Illinois. When I was last doing server support, I had unfettered access to a lot of sensitive material.
In chatting with a friend a year or so back, they told me about a Chinese national working on one of their facilities on the west coast. They were either given or gained access to a lot of sensitive R&D information, specifications, drawings,etc... Gigabytes of data was sent back to China.
These pieces of excrement get into our companies and steal everything that they can get their hands on. A friend, who leans a bit to the liberal side, spent several months in China early in 2019. He told me that they have no ethics when it comes to stealing IP, drawings, etc... It is part of their culture.

China is our #1 enemy on the world stage. Biden and Co. are #1 on shore because their administration will cozy up to them for personal gain.

[dtknowles]

The systems are isolated, but spies can bridge the "air gap" with a thumb drive.

Thumb drive are forbidden. I tried to bring one onto a "not" top secret facility and they took it and smashed it with a hammer. Bad stuff comes in on unsecured media and drives and good stuff goes out.

Tim

[monadnock#5]

Sometimes it's done on purpose. You remember how the Bush 43 administration used a back door in the Iranian computer system to over speed their centrifuges. Ain't no honor amongst thieves or national governments.

[DocSavage]

In this day and age computer systems no matter how good the programing,security measures there's all ways someone capable of getting access. With people simple answer money,sex or just general disdain for one's country and it's ideals.

[oldred]

How can this not be political?

EASY, just stay with the tech aspect and don't talk about Chinese snooping since the question is about ANYONE snooping, not just China!

[oldred]

Ok I had just "assumed" that the access was from hacking using the World Web and not physically stolen like in the old days of spies and pen cameras. Apparently thumb drives and other storage devices have replaced pen cameras, etc to transfer this data onsite and carry it out in their pockets. That makes sense and kind of clears it up, I just got upset every time I saw something like the f35 theft because I was mistakenly assuming it was from simple hacking and not onsite spying.

[dragon813gt]

Any computer that is connected to a network, even a local one, is a security vulnerability. And since computers are everywhere it compounds things a lot. It’s why thumb drives are banned a lot of places. Only takes a few seconds to pop one in, inject some code and now the wrong people have access to the network. That’s really dumbed down but not far from reality.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Apparently (more like obviously) according to the news today the Chinese are stealing technical data from the F35 project

Oh, sorry....somehow I got the idea this was about the Chinese......

[bakerjw]

Sometimes it's done on purpose. You remember how the Bush 43 administration used a back door in the Iranian computer system to over speed their centrifuges. Ain't no honor amongst thieves or national governments.

Not to go off topic, but I don't believe that the "W" administration was involved in it. Mossad, definitely. The hardware in question was specifically targeted by the virus that was dispersed by seeding areas in Iran with infected thumb drives. I only know it because it was my employers products that were effected and we scrambled like crazy patching every system in our R&D facility as well as implementing very stringent controls on all removable media.

[BamaNapper]

I think we can safely say that every country wants info from every other country without having their own info kept secret. It's not political so much as it's an advantage. And it's not just between countries either. The fried chicken place on the corner wants to get their mitts on the KFC recipe. The federal govt and contractors to them have significant hurdles to clear before any computer or computer system can maintain classified or sensitive information. But regardless of the protocols and protections in place, there are always vulnerabilities. As mentioned above, the people who work on the computer systems are probably the greatest threat. There are a fair number of case studies out there where an employee has been used to pull data from classified systems, either for money or a misguided sense of loyalty to a cause. I recall reading a scenario once where Company A provided a scholarship for someone, then found a way to get them hired by Company B, then later asked them for info on a Company B product. It's cheaper than doing the research. It's called Insider Threat, and it's a constant focus for everyone involved in IT security.

[monadnock#5]

Not to go off topic, but I don't believe that the "W" administration was involved in it. Mossad, definitely. The hardware in question was specifically targeted by the virus that was dispersed by seeding areas in Iran with infected thumb drives. I only know it because it was my employers products that were effected and we scrambled like crazy patching every system in our R&D facility as well as implementing very stringent controls on all removable media.

I hate, hate, hate to admit it, but sometimes I watch the cable channel VICE. I don't remember the name of the show, but it was a story on "zero days", back doors built into computer systems, regardless of the level of sophistication. According to the deep throat interviewed, there were as many high level meetings and lawyers involved in the Iranian centrifuge destruction as were involved in the assassination of Yamamoto. Where the truth leaves off and the disinformation begins is way beyond me though.

[MUSTANG]

SIPRNET:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet

JWICS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...cations_System

[William Yanda]

Seems like someone would set up an ultra secret file that would have anyone who stole it chasing down a rabbit hole.
A file that carried a worm like the one that made the Iranians centrifuges run wild.
But then I have a devious mind.