Downloading H4831

[dale2242]

Can H4831 be safely downloaded to use with cast bullets?
If so does it need a filler?
This is probably a question for Larry Gibson.

[MrHarmless]

You might want to start a charge at the low end of the range and work down half a grain at a time, looking for pressure signs. 4831 is quite a bit lower than 4895 on the burn rate chart, so you'd probably see pressure signs from the slower burn rate sooner.

[Kosh75287]

It sounds like a bad idea to me. Find some H4895 & use the reduction rule, or use modest charges of fast or medium-rate pistol powders.

[JM7.7x58]

What cartridge are you loading? I’ve got a partial can of 4831 that I haven’t used yet. When researching how it would work for cast I found out some interesting information. While it isn’t the best powder to download in the 30-06, it is a good powder to use in the 30-30. Here is a link to an old thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0-30-and-h4831

It can be used in the 30-06 for “hot” cast loads per this link.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...load-with-4831

JM

[bmortell]

guess it depends what downloaded means to you. h4831 is the most accurate 2,000 fps powder in my 30-06

[farmbif]

I never would have though 4831 would be useful in cast bullet loads. very interesting.

[Landy88]

Yes, H4831 can be a very good cast bullet powder for moderately reduced loads to full cast velocity loads by using it in cartridges for which we'd typically use faster powders. Where it works best it fills the cases well enough to need no filler. Those old brown paper IMR loading pamphlets have some good data for I4831 loads in many cartridges for which it is thought to be too slow by most loaders. In these lower pressure loads I've had no trouble using their data for H4831, too.

A pdf of an old IMR: http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

[dverna]

Yes, H4831 can be a very good cast bullet powder for moderately reduced loads to full cast velocity loads by using it in cartridges for which we'd typically use faster powders. Where it works best it fills the cases well enough to need no filler. Those old brown paper IMR loading pamphlets have some good data for I4831 loads in many cartridges for which it is thought to be too slow by most loaders. In these lower pressure loads I've had no trouble using their data for H4831, too.

A pdf of an old IMR: http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

Thank you for posting that. Very interesting.

[Larry Gibson]

Can H4831 be safely downloaded to use with cast bullets?
If so does it need a filler?
This is probably a question for Larry Gibson.

Yes, H4831 can be downloaded, as mentioned, for use with cast bullets in many bottle necked cartridges. It is particularly useful in 30 through 8mms with 190 - 220+ gr cast bullets. If load density is 80% or less then a dacron filler most often improves ignition and burn consistency and gives better accuracy.

[Landy88]

Thank you for posting that. Very interesting.

You are welcome. Another use of the width of data for more than the typical powders or best matched ones in these IMR booklets is their use in adapting too shortages like we are enduring.

[dale2242]

I have a lot of CCI Magnum LR primers.
Could I use these in downloaded 4831 ammo rather than standard without issue?
Since I have a lot of 4831 and Magnum LR primers it would be nice to use them together.
Used with cast of course...dale

[Larry Gibson]

I have a lot of CCI Magnum LR primers.
Could I use these in downloaded 4831 ammo rather than standard without issue?
Since I have a lot of 4831 and Magnum LR primers it would be nice to use them together.
Used with cast of course...dale

Shouldn't be a problem as you'll be working up the load anyway.....still might use the dacron filler if load density is less than 80%.

[303Guy]

It's interesting how powders that won't burn fully at lower pressures in larger cases will burn just fine in smaller cases at even lower pressure. Just have a look at 30-30 load data. Using bulk fillers has the same effect but does raise pressure.

[Larry Gibson]

It's interesting how powders that won't burn fully at lower pressures in larger cases will burn just fine in smaller cases at even lower pressure. Just have a look at 30-30 load data. Using bulk fillers has the same effect but does raise pressure.

Has to do with the difference in expansion ratio's between the larger case capacities compared to the smaller capacity of the 30-30.

[earlmck]

Wow Landy88 -- that's some manual! Thanks for posting.

I've burned bunches of old 4831 (bought for 50 cents/lb in brown paper bags back when I first started reloading) in '06's and 30/30's and 35 Rems. But I never even dreamed of a "mouse fart" load in 44 mag using the stuff. You just broadened my horizons. And here I am down to my last couple pounds of the good old 4831. Dang!

[txcaster]

Earlmck,

Could you share your 35 Rem load with 4831?

[Landy88]

Wow Landy88 -- that's some manual! Thanks for posting.

I've burned bunches of old 4831 (bought for 50 cents/lb in brown paper bags back when I first started reloading) in '06's and 30/30's and 35 Rems. But I never even dreamed of a "mouse fart" load in 44 mag using the stuff. You just broadened my horizons. And here I am down to my last couple pounds of the good old 4831. Dang!

You are welcome earlmck. Your kind words, slightly, soothe my envy from missing those great powder deals. Born too late; even though I started handloading in my teens powder was already in its teen$, too.

[Landy88]

I've burned bunches of old 4831 (bought for 50 cents/lb in brown paper bags back when I first started reloading) in '06's and 30/30's and 35 Rems.

Did you ever try it with heavy cast bullets, in the range of the old .303 Savage 190-195 jacketed bullets? If so, how did it work?

Seems like a great match, and those old loads were a real favorites with those who got the chance to hunt with them.

[earlmck]

Earlmck,

Could you share your 35 Rem load with 4831?

That's it right there in the manual -- 43 grains with the 200 grain bullet. Except I used the old Lyman 200 grainer instead of the Hornady.
And I generally load with CCI primers instead of Remington, just because those are most common in these parts.

And Landy88, I shot the old Lyman 31141 (about 175 grains) in the 30/30 with a case full of 4831 for some years. But when I noticed I was getting low on the old 4831 and saw what it would take to replace it I quit using it for those case-full loads because half that amount of 4759 did the same job. And now that 4759 isn't made any more I have gone to 5744 or IMR Blue for those loads in both 30/30 and 35 Rem. I'm sure it would still make a fine load at the appropriate velocity level for good cast boolit accuracy; just burns up quite a lot of it and as you have noticed, it is a lot more that $.50/lb these days. I've reserved the last of my "bargain" 4831 for jacketed loads in the '06.

[dale2242]

I did a simple test with H4831 behind cast bullets yesterday.
The point of the test was to see if the H4831 would burn cleanly with cast with reduced loads.
I loaded some 7.62X54R with 316299 bullets at 207 gr and some 311329 at 175 gr.
The load filled the cases full enough that I didn`t fill I needed a filler.
I first tried 40 gr with the 316299 and got some unburned powder let in the barrel.
I then started increasing the load 1 gr. at a time.
When I got to 45 gr the powder was burning clean with the heavier bullet and very little unburned powder with the lighter one.
I loaded 5 each of the 2 bullets with 45 gr and will shoot them over the chronograph for speed and group.