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Thread: CBI pistol powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    CBI pistol powder

    I picked up 16 pounds of CBI pistol powder and I'm finding that the supplied data isn't enough to cycle but is just shy of being a compressed load. We obviously stopped using it till we can better understand what this powder actually is.

    Has anyone used it before? It came from CDVS

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    This is the data that came with it

    9MM LUGER (BERETTA 92) 115 GRAIN, JACKETED PROJECTILE WITH 4.6 GRAINS POWDER. 4 SHOT GROUP = 2 ”

    45 ACP (SPRINGFIELD) 230 GRAIN LEAD PROJECTILE WITH 5.5 GRAINS POWDER. 4 SHOT GROUP = 2 ”

    40 s&w (GLOCK) 165 GRAIN JACKETED PROJECTILE WITH 5.1 GRAINS POWDER. 4 SHOT GROIP = 1.75 ”

    .38 SPECIAL (COLT) 125 GRAIN JACKETED PROJECTILE WITH 5.3 GRAINS POWDER. 4 SHOT GROUP 2″

    9MM (MAKAROV EAST GERMAN) 95 GRAIN JACKETED PROJECTILE WITH 3.4 GRAINS POWDER. 4 SHOT GROUP = 2.25″

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    flyingmonkey35 was saying that he's using it. I asked about load data and what it could be equated to. I think for cheap powder I'd stick with the sale powder Vally has on imr blue, green, red and target. or else what Jeff Bartlett has to offer

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    We already have the 16 pounds so to late to back out. The 4.6gr in 9mm is very sluggish to cycle so we stopped. I havent got a chance to look at it yet but thinking it would be better suited for 38 or 45.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The powder looked interesting to me.

    I took their 357 Mag load data (see below) and tried to figure a burn rate. Closest I could come up with was VV 3N37. Looks to be slower than VV N340 / HS-6 / Unique and might be just a tad faster than VV N350 / Longshot / AA #7 / SW Heavy Pistol / Lovex D037.1. I did not like seeing the load data take a drop in velocity / pressure going from 8.0 to 9.0 grs.

    If I had not just stocked up with slow pistol powders (SW Heavy Pistol and an equivalent to AA-1680), I might have given it a try. They ask $10 per pound for 16 lbs and then say as low as $4.50 per pound in large quantities. If someone in Southeast NC wants to go in for a volume order, I might could be talked into a modest trial at somewhere in between the numbers above.

    TEST LAB RESULTS IN .357 MAGNUM WITH 125 GRAIN FN

    GRAINS AVERAGE VELOCITY /FPS AVERAGE PRESSURE/FPS

    6.0 1,171 21,223

    7.0 1,301 25,917

    8.0 1,422 29,770

    9.0 1,399 24,956

    10.0 1,537 31,352

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Looks to be slower than VV N340 / HS-6 / Unique and might be just a tad faster than VV N350 / Longshot...
    Perhaps it's close to Alliant Herco? You mentioned that an uncompressed charge of the powder barely cycles in 9mm. I get that same effect with Herco. 5.6/Herco/125 (uncompressed) barely functions, but 5.8/Herco/125 (slightly compressed) functions like a champ, burns clean (for Herco), and groups well. Everything improves as I work up to the max 6.2/Herco/125 (somewhat compressed). Perhaps you should examine Herco data.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    If I did not have a lifetime supply of pistol powder i would get 50 lbs at that price. Even if it just works in my .38/.357's it would be worth playing with.

    I would start with .38 spl cases in a .357 and use a chronograph to see how it compares to known powders while watching for signs of pressure. Working up in .3 gr increments will be safe.
    Don Verna


  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Herco is certainly close on burn rate, but is a flake powder. Flake is usually less quite a bit dense than ball.

    For finding the most similar standard powder, it would help to get the density of CBI and the density of similar burn rate powders.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Okay, I dug around and found the following density values (gr/cc) for reference:

    8.91 Alliant Herco
    9.10 Hodgdon Universal
    9.16 Alliant Unique
    9.34 IMR 800X
    9.38 Vihta Vuori N340
    10.24 Vihta Vuori N350
    10.95 Vihta Vuori 3N37
    11.25 Alliant Power Pistol
    11.91 Winchester WSF
    12.13 Hodgdon Longshot
    12.35 Ramshot Silhouette
    14.05 Hodgdon HS-6
    15.31 Accurate No. 7
    16.05 Accurate No. 5

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    Herco is certainly close on burn rate, but is a flake powder. Flake is usually less quite a bit dense than ball.

    For finding the most similar standard powder, it would help to get the density of CBI and the density of similar burn rate powders.
    I'm pretty sure CBI is a single base flake powder.

    Edit: unless you know it isn't a flake powder?
    Last edited by swheeler; 09-14-2020 at 08:31 PM.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    My assumption came from a quick glance at the photo provided by the seller. A second look noted that the picture is probably a large drum and not a small canister. What I though were small grains is probably a typical flake. My bad.

    As far as density, I was surprised to find that Herco (the lowest density powder in my list) would have only a 75% load density with 4.6 grs, a 115 gr Hornady RN and a 1.169 OAL. CBI would have to be much less dense to be "just shy of compressed" (post 1) with 4.6 gr (post 4).

    At this point I am guessing that the post 1 / post 4 load was either not close to 100% or was not a 115 gr at 1.169 OAL. If CBI is not significantly less dense, it is looking more like Herco gets the nod as a pretty close standard powder.

    On the other hand, if it is a lot less dense than Herco, the 357 mag load data may be showing a compressed charge at 9 gr. If this is the case, there is really no close standard equivalent. Herco data could still be used as a guide, but use extra caution as you start to go over 95% load density.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I wonder if there is a way to find out who made the powder, or if the igniter packs were made and sold to the govt for the 155 Howitzer. From memory the data looks similar to Alcan AL5 in 357, but that was a long time ago it was made .
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  13. #13
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    The photo reminds of Maxxam Csb-1 or 1m, it’s similar in color and is a flake. I think Csb-1 is faster than Herco though.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Has there been any more work with This powder in 9mm?

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    . I've got enough Promo to last me and just ordered some IMR Blue for a 10mm but if this works in 38/357, 10mm,. 40 and 45lc I'm tempted at the price. Cheap enough to experiment with if you have a base load to start from but with nearly $45 shipping fee it only works at 16lbs or more and that's slot of powder to experiment with
    Last edited by jonp; 12-30-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Mold

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    I was looking for data for the CB1 that I just purchased myself and found the CSB-1/ ETR7/ NR-485. data so I checked the numbers for the data that came from CDVS.
    Most of the loads listed where within .1 grain of what was available.. Could we just have another renamed "LOT # ". Also did some comparasons with other sources using bullet weight /charge weight /velocity. and it looks like the W231,Bullseye,tite group,n320,aa-2 could be in the ballpark. I've not tried any of these, but i will use their published data to get started the go to 357 and 10MM after working it for a little bit. If anybody more knowledgeable about these possibilities , please share. Thanks

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    So my CBI powder just arrived and I thought I would share this information with you guys. It is not Maxxam CSB-1, the ETR7 is Maxxam CSB-1. Pictures:
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    When warmer weather returns I'll setup my Dillon SDB for .45 and try some loads. It looks like mid loads for Bullsye might be a good starting point.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    I did an internet search for powder with tiny holes. I found that the CBI powder “looks” like 700X. Which would make it a close equivalent to Bullseye.

    https://www.leverguns.com/articles/t...tolpowders.htm


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  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
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    I tested some lee .357 125gr cast at 130gr with the 5.3gr recommendation. Velocity was at 1050fps, and primers were nice and rounded. I'm still working on 9mm, but its a bulky powder. I'm not sure it will load 9mm well without a compressed load.

    Sorry about that forgot the caliber.
    Last edited by BioFighter; 02-09-2021 at 09:05 AM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioFighter View Post
    I tested some lee 125gr cast at 130gr with the 5.3gr recommendation. Velocity was at 1050fps, and primers were nice and rounded. I'm still working on 9mm, but its a bulky powder. I'm not sure it will load 9mm well without a compressed load.
    We’re you testing .40?


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check