303 case forming

[blackthorn]

I read an article this afternoon that made mention of using a full-length sizing die to hydro-form the case body so the shoulder expands radially rather than stretching longitudinally. This is a procedure i am not familiar with. Can anyone provide a detailed explanation of this process? Thanks.

[dtknowles]

Forming which 303 and what are you using for parent cases.

The process is similar to fireforming but messier.

First you need to plug the hole in your shell holder so you don't pop out the primer and spray liquid down your ram. Second you need to expand the neck of the case so it will be tight in your sizing die. Third you need a ram slightly smaller than the diameter of the case mouth when the case is in the die.

You run your neck expanded case up into the sizing die, fill the case with water up to the neck. You put the ram through the top of the die and into the neck of the case and whack it with a big hammer. It might help if you put some grease on the ram as that will reduce the amount of water that sprays everywhere. I never did this to form cases, I did it to decap berdan primed brass and for that you need a lot less pressure.

When I wanted to form cases that need the shoulder pushed forward, especially on rimmed cases. I put a small charge of fast powder in the case, fill the rest with filler, plug the neck with hard bullet lube and fireform them.

Tim

[blackthorn]

I am familiar with the fire-form method, it is what I use to form cases to a chamber. My post was because I was unfamiliar with the hydro-form concept and I am curious by nature. Thanks for the explanation and I do not think i will bother trying it anytime soon.

[tomme boy]

Don't use USA made brass. It is not made to the actual British specs.

[gwpercle]

The basic premise is :
Instead of fire forming with gunpowder in your rifle's chamber ... you use water and a tight fitting plug with a heavy mallet to hydraulically form the case in a loading die .

It's sort of sketchy because of the varying amounts of force from the mallet blows aren't consistent or precise . And prepare to get wet , you and everything in a 10-15 foot radius .

Gary

[Scott.M]

Don't use USA made brass. It is not made to the actual British specs.

Assuming we are discussing the 303 Brit, which has yet to be affirmed.

[Wayne Smith]

And it forms the case to your die rather than to your chamber. I'd rather form to my chamber.

[dtknowles]

Assuming we are discussing the 303 Brit, which has yet to be affirmed.

I assumed it would be like 303 savage or something that did not have common brass. Why would you need to form 303 brit and what would you use for parent brass?

Tim

[dtknowles]

I used to fire form 303 Brit brass into 25 Krag when I could not find 30-40 Krag brass;

Tim

[blackthorn]

In the OP the subject specified 303 and yes it referred to a 303 British, but it also stated my question was initiated as a result of reading and article that mentioned hydro-forming. I was not familiar with that process and my curiosity was aroused, therefore the question. I assume the process would be the same regardless of caliber/make.

[dtknowles]

In the OP the subject specified 303 and yes it referred to a 303 British, but it also stated my question was initiated as a result of reading and article that mentioned hydro-forming. I was not familiar with that process and my curiosity was aroused, therefore the question. I assume the process would be the same regardless of caliber/make.

The process is the same but it does make a difference if you going up or down in caliber. It is better if you get the neck the right size first.

[Scott.M]

I assumed it would be like 303 savage or something that did not have common brass. Why would you need to form 303 brit and what would you use for parent brass?

Tim

Can't answer what I don't know. I see one guy saying 'Don't use USA made brass', I also see that the OP is from Canada. So if one had just the slightest ability to reason, one would assume 303 Brit.

As luck would have it, the OP confirmed.


Gee

[dtknowles]

Can't answer what I don't know. I see one guy saying 'Don't use USA made brass', I also see that the OP is from Canada. So if one had just the slightest ability to reason, one would assume 303 Brit.

As luck would have it, the OP confirmed.


Gee

Yeah, but he still is not fessing up to what he was forming into our out of 303 brit.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Maybe has an Epps Improved or similar?

[blackthorn]

Nothing to "fess up" to. Curiosity as to process, nothing more, nothing less.

[RogerDat]

Does touch on a question I had. Anneal mouth and neck before or after sizing/forming brass? Since this is a curiosity thread on process.

I do some necked brass just to extend life but also have done some 8mm formed from 30-06 brass and have never been clear if there is a "best" point in the processing of brass in general and for case caliber conversion to do the annealing.

Was the concern for using US brass in 303 Brit vs foreign brass? Seems like it wouldn't much matter since the brass is getting formed to the die. I think I have both is why I wondered.

[dtknowles]

Nothing to "fess up" to. Curiosity as to process, nothing more, nothing less.

So why was the title 303 case forming and not hydraulic case forming?

Tim

[blackthorn]

So why was the title 303 case forming and not hydraulic case forming?

Tim

The article that initiated the question I had was part of a thread that was dealing with 303---so---just coincidence.

[DonHowe]

The OP didn't ask for this but I will share it anyway.
I believe the .303 Brit would benefit greatly from a forming/fireforming method I have used with success on a couple of wildcat cartridges. For new .303 brass I recommend first necking the case up to 8mm. Then neck back to .303 gradually, trying the case in the chamber, until the neck is reduced far enough back to allow the bolt to close on the case with resistance. In this method the case is trapped between the bolt face and the "secondary shoulder" left at the base of the neck. Using the cream of wheat method to fireform will produce a properly formed and headspace case.

[EDG]

Of the most readily available cases the PPU is the best choice.
The PPU case head is a little larger and the case walls are a little thicker at the junction of the case walls and the case head.

If you analyze the reasons for brass failure

You will find that the British ammo specs and the SAAMI specs are very different from .303 Brit rifle chambers.
Don't try to FL resize fired cases with USA -SAAMI standard loading dies.
The location of the shoulder is very different.
The SAAMI shoulder is about .04 shorter than the shoulder of a Lee-Enfield rifle chamber.