Advice on Boolit for 357 mag

[Northboy]

I'm wanting to use my Ruger black hawk 6" barrel in 357 mag to take a whitetail. Thinking of shots under 50 yrds, recent logging has left the area thick with ample oppertunity to get closer than this. I have a Lee keith SWC, 158 gr mold but was looking at MP and NOE molds in a HP desighn with a pin blank to do solids in the 158 to 183 gr range. Looking for anyone with experience with the 357 with these type bullets. It may also be used to take small to med black bearunder 50yds. I realize the alloy will make a difference, so far ive only cast reather hard plinkers "18 - 22 BHN". Figure on testing once i have a mold.

[dragon813gt]

MP 359-640, the double crimp version. Casts a 170 grain solid and is what I hunt w/. There is no need for a hollow point for hunting. I have blank pins installed in every MP mold I own.

[Northboy]

Thats actually one of the ones i was looking at.

[curioushooter]

The MP-359 Hammer is an excellent bullet either as a solid or as a HP.

I found the Solid worked alright in carbines while the small HP worked alright in revolvers.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Magnum-Carbine

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...agnum-Revolver

[farmbif]

that mp mold dragon suggests sure does look sweet. ive cast and shot several different bullets in 38 spl and 357 and most recently been shooting 358156. checked and size lubed to .360 ive pushed em real fast with 17.5 grains Alliant 300mp getting great accuracy. I don't often use paper targets but that load in my Rossi 92 takes down 1" trees at 50 yards no problem

[quilbilly]

I am currently shooting the NOE 360-182-WF in the plain base version (not shown on the NOE site) in both a 357 mag rifle and revolver. I doubt you would find a better looking hunting boolit and the hollow point probably isn't necessary. It is accurate in the rifle enough to destroy small pill bottles at over 100 yards and an MV of 1350 with no leading. The boolit drops from my mold at 186 gr. I currently deer hunt with PRB in a 45 muzzleloader but I am tempted to get some sabots from MMP to see how it feels in that rifle since I am not confident in 45 PRB if an opportunity for a black bear presents itself again.

[megasupermagnum]

As a solid, the alloy will not make a huge difference. A 20:1 alloy might expand if pushed to 1400 fps or so. The easy, no homework answer is to use the one that shoots most accurate. I never heard much good as far as accuracy with the Lee SWC. If I were to hunt tomorrow with my GP100 it would be with the NOE 360-176-SWC (Keith clone) cast as a solid, with 10gr Bluedot. I'm casting with range scrap plus tin, which is around 12 BHN hardness. This mold can also be cast as a hollow point.

[Gray Fox]

I have the Lee 125 and 158 grain RNFP as well as the similar Ranch Dog 175 RNFP which drops at 180 grains with WW. The last one doesn't feed well in one of my Rossie carbines unless I crimp it to shorten the OAL a bit. The 175 with a good load of 2400 is my deer load, but I'm sure the 158 would do all I need it to do. I lube all of them with 45-45-10. The carbines are relatively new and allowed me to replace the rear sight with a scope base. I have an inexpensive BSA 2x on them and the scopes have held up well to this point. I replaced the one on my wife's gun with a Primary Arms Micro Red Dot sight, but we haven't taken it to the range yet. They are advertised to be able to handle heavy recoil and I may put one on my Rossi .44 Mag carbine to see it it is true. GF

[MT Gianni]

NOE 180 wfn or 160 wfn will do what you want better than a HP, IMO. Try to break the far shoulder or double lung.

[Northboy]

anyone use the 359 hammer in solid or hp in a ruger blackhawk that can give an accuracy report?

[dragon813gt]

anyone use the 359 hammer in solid or hp in a ruger blackhawk that can give an accuracy report?

Don’t have that gun but I do own both plain bass and gas check versions of the 359 Hammer. It has not been as accurate as the 359-640. That’s the bullet I compare all others to. The 640 nose profile is almost always the most accurate in my guns. I say almost always because I don’t remember if others beat it. If Miha releases a mold w/ the 640 nose that I don’t already own I buy it no matter what.

[Beerd]

Northboy
I don't think your Lee SWC is going to bounce off a deer but a feller can't have too many moulds.
..

[reloader28]

I know the Lee 158RF does an exellent job in a short barrel Rossi with a max load of 2400 and straight clip on WW.
I cut the bevel base from my mold and use a plain base gas check. I like that boolit in every 357 we've tried it in

[Ozark mike]

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Heavy flat nose. Bust those shoulders if possible. As you will be in new re-growth do not count on easy tracking especially with out an exit hole.
We hunt river bottoms. Thick stuff. My longest firearm shot is 32 yards with a .58 muzzleloader. Exit hole was one inch plus. Happily big doe ran up the bluff then turned around and came back down where she piled up 10 yards from me. I saw the whole run. Both lungs and top of the heart. Very little blood trail until the last 15 yards run.
Been a recurve hunter for 30+years. Normal arrow flight is under 15 yards. 1 1/4 in broadheads. 55# pull bow. I learned alot about crawling along on hands and knees looking for blood sprinkles / spray.
So if you are hunting well fed corn crunchers / bean eaters they an be very inclined to escape and survive. I have popped them with revolvers. Smallest is our 375 Supermag at maybe 14 yards. Flat nosed 255 gr Lyman. Both lungs and large exit hole. That buck stood there for a good 30 seconds then calmly walked near 60 yards where he laid down and leaked out. Very little blood trail.
So my idea-bust the shoulders. I will not shot another large whitetail with anything not starting with a 4. I am rather found of the 45 Colt. WFN cast as soft as possible.
Your 357 with at least a 180 FN cast from 50-50 not water dropped can do the job. Just realize crawling around looking for evidence gets real old in the dark. Early morning can also get somewhat tedious.
I am a firm believer in popping corn crunchers with revolver bullets cast of a weight 10% of body weight of the intended critter. I want an exit hole as large as possible.

[Ozark mike]

20lb cannon might be considered overkill in some states

[farmbif]

what's velocity of that 36-220e in 357 mag. might make a good 35 rem load too

[marshall623]

NOE 180 wfn or 160 wfn will do what you want better than a HP, IMO. Try to break the far shoulder or double lung.

180 WFN will get the job done , I shot one through both lungs right at the back of them and no ribs hit and the deer only went 50yds . I walked over to where it stood and I found blood and pieces of lungs in the leaves .

[Larry Gibson]

I'm wanting to use my Ruger black hawk 6" barrel in 357 mag to take a whitetail. Thinking of shots under 50 yrds, recent logging has left the area thick with ample oppertunity to get closer than this. I have a Lee keith SWC, 158 gr mold but was looking at MP and NOE molds in a HP desighn with a pin blank to do solids in the 158 to 183 gr range. Looking for anyone with experience with the 357 with these type bullets. It may also be used to take small to med black bearunder 50yds. I realize the alloy will make a difference, so far ive only cast reather hard plinkers "18 - 22 BHN". Figure on testing once i have a mold.

Never felt "under-bulleted" with the Lyman 358156 cast of 16-1, GC'd, lubed with an NRA 50/50 lube loaded over 2400 or H100 to run 1400+ fps (Skeeters loads to original 357 psi) and HP'd 3/16" deep with the Forster 1/8" HP tool out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. Penetration is excellent on deer and BBs with all but Texas heart shots (which I don't take). Terminal effect is as good as can be expected regardless of bullet weight. The 357 magnum, since it's inception, has been efficiently killing game since the mid 1930s with that bullet weight at that velocity quite well.

Just sayin'.....

[curioushooter]

"A 20:1 alloy might expand if pushed to 1400 fps or so."

This IS about the velocity where expansion may be observed with NON HPed cast slugs of 36 caliber. The problem is an alloy that soft in that caliber without a gas check is almost certainly going to lead if driven that hard. Even with a gas check I would check the barrel after every shot. The RCBS 158 grain SWCGC holds it together when cast of 16:1 or (96-2-2, which is cheaper than 16:1 and of equivalent hardness) when driven to 1200-1250 in all most 357s which includes two revolvers, a contender, and a rifle. The copper diaper I favor in full power 357. The lyman 358156 is a similar bullet but it has a smaller loob groove so I would not favor it for rifles. The RCBS SWC cycles in my Marlin just fine with mag brass, as do all my other molds except the 358429, but it will cycle in 38 special brass.

I've done enough testing to convince myself that pursuing expansion with solids in revolver cartridges is not worth the effort. Revolvers barely make the velocity needed at the MUZZLE, and have even less chance of it still being going fast enough at any range. With medium bore handguns I consider hollowpoints a much better option since they allow a much milder loading that will still be effective, be easier on your hand, the revolver, etc. With big bore handguns (like 43 caliber and up) I like solids because it is just easier to get a perfect solid than it is a perfect HP bullet. Plus big bores have a much wider effective velocity range since they cannot over or under expand. If you drive them really hard (like 44 mag velocity) you may be able to get expansion at near ranges even. And from impact velocity greater than about 800 FPS a 250 grain SWC will penetrate pretty much any North American herbivore broadside and will penetrate deer lengthwise and make a big enough hole to effect rapid blood loss. It's just easier with more diameter.

Rifles can manage to get the needed velocity, especially with specialty powders like 300MP, but only out to maybe 100 yards or so. If that is all you are concerned with then by all means. I put the exact load recipes to duplicate what I did in my links above. These loads are proven on gel and deer. I found that with 158s I could get up to 1900 FPS with 300MP and with 180s 1700. Both of these loads will keep you above the marginal zone to about 100 yards in 357 carbines.

I just think that if you want rifle performance get a rifle cartridge that will easily reach 2000 FPS or greater so that you will have sufficient expansion inducing velocity at impact across practical range (where accuracy and vision become the limitations). Just this weekend I was out in the woods actually testing some loads and two fawns presented themselves at the top of a hill about 150 yards away. It's out of season, and they were little things, but it reminded me that there is no real reason to impose limitations on myself. With my 30-30 those would have been easy shots. With my S&W 624 they are Hail Marys for me.