Pedersoli Gibbs rifle.

[charlie b]

charlie, I was shooting BPCR in 1986 with a 45-70 and a 520 gr. bullet over 60 grs. of black. Graduated to a 45-90, same bullet, 80 grs. of black, thus my handle. I also was shooting a 300 Win. Mag in 1000 yards matches at the same time. I appreciate the comments but this is far from my first rodeo.

Been shooting muzzleloaders since '75 and I never did get why the "bounce the rod" routine. My neighbor does that and it bugs the crap out of me...lol! Chill, I've always seated the PRB just as you describe except it usually takes two strokes, seat firmly, prime and fire....or cap and fire. I usually shot flinters.

Then why are you hesitating Don't think you could go wrong with a fast twist Gibbs.

I never understood bouncing the rod either. Seemed counter productive to me. Better for me with round ball was a nice firm steady push until it seats. Bullets were another matter. For range shooting they went down the bore with just the weight of the rod. I had better luck with a card wad under the bullets and sometimes a felt wad as well depending on the bullet.

[sharps4590]

I'm hesitant because I have a Shiloh Sharps #1 Sporter set up for long range shooting and a wonderfully accurate load for it that I haven't shot at distance in over 5 years. I imagine everyone who's helped me shares a similar opinion, a rifle that's set up for long range and accurate isn't a lot of fun at 100 yards. Kinda like my other consumptive hobby, vintage sports cars. It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

[charlie b]

LOL, yep.

We lived a couple of places where I was 'stuck' with ranges that were only 100 or 200yds. Not much shooting fun for me.

I gave my last sports car to my daughter. Just no fun to drive a hot car anywhere near the speed limit. Also the reason I stopped riding motorcycles.

[indian joe]

I'm hesitant because I have a Shiloh Sharps #1 Sporter set up for long range shooting and a wonderfully accurate load for it that I haven't shot at distance in over 5 years. I imagine everyone who's helped me shares a similar opinion, a rifle that's set up for long range and accurate isn't a lot of fun at 100 yards. Kinda like my other consumptive hobby, vintage sports cars.

It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

I like that ....

[charlie b]

PS this kind of thing is why I thought about going back to a cap and ball rifle. Accurate enough at 100yd and not hard on the shoulder.

[sharps4590]

Well, I've talked myself out of it for the reason above. If anyone is interested it is offered by Gun Works in Oregon. I can post a link if anyone wants.

charlie, I've done that and, more or less restricted myself to open sights on my CF rifles. as well. I did just purchase a vintage Schmidt & Bender, 4X scope for my Vierordt double rifle simply because I have the claw mount rings for it. First scope I've used in....I guess since we moved back from Wyoming 17 years ago.

My vintage sports cars are a 1955 MG-TF, a 1956 MG-A and a '74 MG-B. The first two I can drive like I stole 'em and not worry about the speed limit...lol!! The "B" is a lot more modern feeling and I just rebuilt the original HIF, SU carbs and replaced the Weber the PO put on it. The throttle response is better up to 3000-3500 RPM but after that the Weber and SU's are about equal. You'd still have to push it to worry much about the speed limit and a ticket. The "B" also has overdrive so it's comfortable on 4-lane highways. The others...they're just a hoot on our back roads!!! I'd post a picture but I have no photo host since photojunk went south.

[charlie b]

Nice pick in cars!! I was inches away from buying a TC when in high school. The kicker was rust, so did not get it.

Mine were all more modern, Alfa Spider, 240Z's and such. Last wasn't really a sports car, Subaru WRX, modified a bit (>300hp). Much more fun on dirt roads

I am back to scopes after using open sights for a while. I can get by with a peep, but, only out to 100 or maybe 200yds depending on target. If I shot my Lyman more I'd get a Malcolm scope for it. I just find the recoil a bit tiresome these days. I keep threatening myself to build a round ball rifle. One of these days, maybe

PS just looked at the Gun Shop web site. Looks like muzzle loaders are becoming less popular again. There are about double the number of used guns I used to see on there.

[oldracer]

If you want to try "cap and ball" rifles, either make one or buy one that with shoot well out to 40 rods I.E. 220 yards. I bought one a few years ago and the only info was the previous owner won many, many matches with it. I found out much later it seems to have been made by a MR Wilburn Terry also know as Web Terry who holds a lot of records at the NMLRA matches! It also had a Lewis lock and trigger which are about the best you can ever buy! It will do 0.490 round balls in a 2 inch circle at 200 yards when bench shooting. I put a 12 power Unertl scope on it as the barrel was drilled for Unertl mounts at 7.2 inches. I can't shoot it off hand as it weighs 20+ pounds!
John

[sharps4590]

charlie, I had an '81 Alfa Spider the PO had Euro Spec'ed with cams, pistons and I think valves. It still had the Spica mechanical fuel injection. It was pretty quick and I enjoyed it for 9 or 10 years. It became trading fodder for the TF. I just sold my '06 Solstice. Ran out of room and frankly, the oldsters are more fun to drive. I've had several over the years, a 69, Triumph GT-6, a Spitfire, Fiat 124 Spider, an earlier '68 "B" and an MG Midget. I still lust for an Austin Healey 3000-6, BN-7 or BJ-8, either one. Dreams would be a Mercedes 190 or 280....uh-huh, like that's gonna happen.

oldracer, I started with cap locks...in '74 or '75 and either evolved or graduated to flinters, depending on how one views it....lol After a life time of upgrading all my muzzleloaders are now custom, except for my squirrel rifle. 'Course I only have 5, including a real Manton, caplock double gun. NOT Joseph Manton, wouldn't that be sumthin'!!! It's one of the other Manton's, confirmed by one of his descendants. If I could find one I could afford, a Billinghurst 40 rod rifle, as you mentioned, complete with false muzzle and all the other accoutrements would come live with me. Or one of the other makers whose names I've forgotten, like Ned Roberts talks about in his book. The rifle you mention, is it a chunk gun, all barrel with a lock and barely a stock?

Two things I promised myself I'd do when I retired is build me a 6'6", 3/4 wt., bamboo fly rod and an Ohio rifle. The fly rod is finished and a pure "D" delight on the small, spring creeks around here. The rifle is still in the wings. Maybe oughta order a kit for this winter.

[indian joe]

charlie, I had an '81 Alfa Spider the PO had Euro Spec'ed with cams, pistons and I think valves. It still had the Spica mechanical fuel injection. It was pretty quick and I enjoyed it for 9 or 10 years. It became trading fodder for the TF. I just sold my '06 Solstice. Ran out of room and frankly, the oldsters are more fun to drive. I've had several over the years, a 69, Triumph GT-6, a Spitfire, Fiat 124 Spider, an earlier '68 "B" and an MG Midget. I still lust for an Austin Healey 3000-6, BN-7 or BJ-8, either one. Dreams would be a Mercedes 190 or 280....uh-huh, like that's gonna happen.

oldracer, I started with cap locks...in '74 or '75 and either evolved or graduated to flinters, depending on how one views it....lol After a life time of upgrading all my muzzleloaders are now custom, except for my squirrel rifle. 'Course I only have 5, including a real Manton, caplock double gun. NOT Joseph Manton, wouldn't that be sumthin'!!! It's one of the other Manton's, confirmed by one of his descendants. If I could find one I could afford, a Billinghurst 40 rod rifle, as you mentioned, complete with false muzzle and all the other accoutrements would come live with me. Or one of the other makers whose names I've forgotten, like Ned Roberts talks about in his book. The rifle you mention, is it a chunk gun, all barrel with a lock and barely a stock?

Two things I promised myself I'd do when I retired is build me a 6'6", 3/4 wt., bamboo fly rod and an Ohio rifle. The fly rod is finished and a pure "D" delight on the small, spring creeks around here. The rifle is still in the wings. Maybe oughta order a kit for this winter.

Wow ! You fish with your own built split cane flyrod - nothing comes close to a nice cane rod !!!!!!!

[charlie b]

Mine was a '71 Spider. Mechanical fuel injection. The 75's had electronic FI so your seller must have retrofitted his. Ran well but it was eating the 2nd gear syncro and rust was becoming an issue. Sold it and got a 70 240Z. Mistake as I was transferred to Germany. Hard to get parts for a Japanese car over there back in the 70's

I fished with a couple cane rods but never warmed up to the 'slower' action on them. I guess I used the modern stuff for too long.

[Don Purcell]

I have the Pedersoli Gibbs .451 and like it. The odd thing is at 100 yards I am just getting patterns as far as groups go. Took it over to Friendship, Indiana many years ago to shoot at the Mini Creedmoor targets to shoot at 500 yards. The patterns at home turned into groups at 500 that would stay in a baseball cap. Go figure. Haven't shot it in almost 15 years, may break it out and work more with it. Hope you enjoy yours.

[indian joe]

Mine was a '71 Spider. Mechanical fuel injection. The 75's had electronic FI so your seller must have retrofitted his. Ran well but it was eating the 2nd gear syncro and rust was becoming an issue. Sold it and got a 70 240Z. Mistake as I was transferred to Germany. Hard to get parts for a Japanese car over there back in the 70's

I fished with a couple cane rods but never warmed up to the 'slower' action on them. I guess I used the modern stuff for too long.

We must have used different modern stuff - I like the more brisk action of the cane over fibreglass - old fishing buddy called the glass his snake charmer rod - reckoned you could take on a tiger snake with it and no big deal if you busted it killing the snake - I was never interested in getting that close (to a tiger snake)

[sharps4590]

I better clear up something. I didn't build the bamboo blank, I ordered it from Tufts & Batson in St. Louis. I did everything else. I swore off anything but bamboo for stream fishing about 16-17 years ago and have no regrets....and a fair collection of vintage "Blue Collar" bamboo rods. I've had and still have a couple graphite rods. I use them in ponds and smallish lakes that I think the water is too dirty for my silk lines. But...a pond or lake ain't a stream and graphite ain't bamboo. Most of my graphite rods I gave away. Still have an old Eagle Claw 'glass rod that's pretty good. However, none of them put a smile on my face like the cane stick.

charlie, I believe Alfa used the Spica injection for only 2 years, 80 and 81 or 81 and 82. It was original to the '81 and not retrofitted. As I understand it that is why those are the least two desirable model years. The next year they went to Bosch EFI. I never had any problems with the Spica but, I don't really miss the Alfa like I miss the GT-6...and that was 45 or so years ago!! As with a lot of rifles, I shoulda kept the GT-6.

Don, I didn't get the rifle. I expect I'll regret it but there's other rifles....and/or vintage sports car parts....I need or want more.

[Boz330]

Hello Charlie. Respectfully, It is not the AMPCO nipple.
Both the Platinum lined and the 'other' are one off shop built. The problem with they are worn out by 50 shots is they are wearing out from the first shot. Accuracy degrades a little with each shot from the first. Match shooters (the Gibbs is a match rifle) can not be competitive with less than consistency from the first to the last shot.

There are a lot of reasons that make this true. Too many to go into now.

Mike,
You need to try that Hoff nipple I sent you.

Someone mentioned loads. Mine was 95gr of 1.5 Kick a 1/8 cork wad and a Hoff design PP bullet sized .449.
My loading procedure was wet patch wrapped around a brush, then a dry and a patch lubed with Mobil 1 on a regular jag. Long drop tube with powder, then wad and bullet seated lightly.
I tried both GG and PP. Both shot well but the PP shot a little better. I really liked shooting the Gibbs but as I get older all that jumping up and down gets to be a strain. Lying down and just shooting 10 to 15 rounds is much easier.

Bob

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=sharps4590;4986028]I better clear up something. I didn't build the bamboo blank, I ordered it from Tufts & Batson in St. Louis. I did everything else. I swore off anything but bamboo for stream fishing about 16-17 years ago and have no regrets....and a fair collection of vintage "Blue Collar" bamboo rods. I've had and still have a couple graphite rods. I use them in ponds and smallish lakes that I think the water is too dirty for my silk lines. But...a pond or lake ain't a stream and graphite ain't bamboo. Most of my graphite rods I gave away. Still have an old Eagle Claw 'glass rod that's pretty good. However, none of them put a smile on my face like the cane stick.

ahhhh ya went and spoiled it! me sittin here thinking thats about three steps harder than hammering a barrel out of a hunk of flat iron ---still theres a lot of fine work in makin up a rod from a blank - hook a couple nice ones on a cane stick with dry fly ....satisfaction guaranteed . !

......

[charlie b]

No fiberglass for me. A guy came up and want me to teach him to cast with one. Heavy, slow (8wt so not surprising).

My CF rods are 4wt (8.5'), 5wt (9ft) and 7wt(9ft) depending on where I am fishing. And I like the modern fly lines. On really small streams it makes little difference but on the bigger ones and lakes it does for me.

Sharps, my 71 also had the SPICA mechanical FI and 1750cc. A year or two after that they went to a 2L motor and electronic FI. I wanted one of the GT-6's but had a family back then so could not afford it. Almost got another spider until the owner let it known the engine had spun a bearing and their fix was to simply remove that bearing from the engine

[sharps4590]

Sorry Joe...but planing a blank is beyond my pay grade...to say nothing of my knowledge and skill level. I have restored several vintage bamboo rods and rather enjoy that.
Seems mostly South Bend's and one Heddon. South Bend made some nice rods!

Well charlie, there's lots of 3 cylinder engines out there....my little Suzuki Carry has one......but it started that way... I've got 4's, 5's, several 6's and one 7 wt. bamboo rods. Heddon, a few South Bends, a Montague and a couple of the better Horrocks & Ibbotson's, A Madison Far and Fine by Orvis and a few sort of custom rods. Sort of in that a couple guys went into business and didn't make it so they sold some rods for pretty decent prices and I got a couple. As good as the rods feel marketing must have been their difficulty in a difficult business.

# 1 & #2 plugs on my TF have been fouling out for a while. Had it out this morning, jet is leaking out the bottom and the needle and jet are worn worn on the front carb. Get to rebuild 2 more SU's now. Ah well, it'll be right and won't leak or foul plugs.

Good conversation!!!!

[charlie b]

Just all about having fun.

Rebuilding old rods is fun. I thought about making one from scratch, but never went forward with it. That before I refinished one. The refinishing was touchy enough that I was glad I didn't try making one. The good thing about refinishing one is you can change what weight it is with some careful planing or sanding.

That Spider still ran on 4cyl, it just didn't have a #2 bearing. They felt that having 4 bearings was enough and I'd agree if not pushed hard. The other side of that is why did it spin the bearing and how much was the engine abused before that.

I just went through another car purchase last month and the urge for another sports car was strong. But, I needed something that would get me into some more remote fishing locations so I settled on a compact SUV instead. Not flashy but it does the job.

Short story. The reason I got the new car is also related to fishing. I was on my way to go fishing early one morning. Got up in the mountains before sunrise. BAM!!! Hit an elk. Totaled the car but all the safety stuff in it worked great and I just had a scrape/bruise on my left ankle.

[charlie b]

Rebuilding carbs is fun isn't it

I had a Moto Guzzi T5 (850cc) that I put a lot of miles on. Rebuilt the carbs on it at the 50,000mi mark. New rings on the pistons, adjusted valves, replaced rear end gearbox, rewired it when I put in a new alternator, etc, etc. Lots of periodic maintenance on those things.