Rifle primers in Marlin 1894?

[Bruce in WV]

Can I use rifle primers to reload for my Marlin 1894 45Colt rifle and save my limited supply of pistol primers for pistol reloading?

[Winger Ed.]

I've used them in my Marlin .357 and did in my .44Mag.
Never had a problem.

The LPM ones always sat well below the rim in my 20 year old RP brass.
The old school chrome Winchester LRs felt flush, I never thought much about it, and they worked OK.

[Bazoo]

Large rifle primers are taller than LP primers. You could uniform the pockets deeper though and use them.

[BK7saum]

Rifle primers will likely be proud of the case head. Not an ideal situation.

[Bruce in WV]

Uniforming the primer pocket to the full depth of the tool to see if the primer top is flush with the case head will be an interesting experiment. If that step is successful, I'll load the bullet and fire it in step 2.

The load is designed to be low pressure (14,000psi), so thinning the thickness of the primer pocket base (the web?) to fit the top of the primer flush with the case head should not be a problem. It will be something I inspect carefully in the fired case.

[indian joe]

Yes - Large Rifle primers are taller than Large Pistol. 45 colt and 44 magnum brass is made for pistol primer - 44/40 brass is made for rifle primer
357 wont matter because the small primers are all same height

[prs]

Yes - Large Rifle primers are taller than Large Pistol. 45 colt and 44 magnum brass is made for pistol primer - 44/40 brass is made for rifle primer
357 wont matter because the small primers are all same height

Joe?!?!?! That is news to me about 44-40 calling for rifle primer. I must have missed that detail in the references. I am a relative new bee to 44-40 so I am not dissing you, I gotta check this out. The large pistol primers are doing great, I wonder if I am risking anything...

prs

PS: I took time to check two references; both Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, one current and one 1973. Both specify Large Pistol primers. So, OK we are good with that. The old data lists slightly higer rifle and pistol charges for this cartridge and such reminds me of Larry's remarks to beware of older data based upon CUP data. Plus, I have used Unique for years and I have suspected they have calmed it down some in the later Hercules years or post Hercules. prs

[Bruce in WV]

Completed the experiment using virgin Starline 45 Colt case and WLR primer. No primer pocket prep.
Hand seated the primer using normal force; primer fits flush to the case head, fires normally using a modest load of Unique with a 200gr LRNFP Hy-Tek coated bullet.
This example applies only to this lot of brass and this lot of primers, of course. YMMV using different components. See the photo.

370421CF-C9E5-46EF-B181-510B85859571 by Bruce, on Flickr

[indian joe]

Joe?!?!?! That is news to me about 44-40 calling for rifle primer. I must have missed that detail in the references. I am a relative new bee to 44-40 so I am not dissing you, I gotta check this out. The large pistol primers are doing great, I wonder if I am risking anything...

prs

PS: I took time to check two references; both Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, one current and one 1973. Both specify Large Pistol primers. So, OK we are good with that. The old data lists slightly higer rifle and pistol charges for this cartridge and such reminds me of Larry's remarks to beware of older data based upon CUP data. Plus, I have used Unique for years and I have suspected they have calmed it down some in the later Hercules years or post Hercules. prs

Yeah I know whats in the books and I had this argyment before, didnt convince anybody then proly wont now, nobody that called me wrong went away and measured though - all the brass I have measured - from 1960's vintage Dominion to Winchester to Remington/Peters to Starline - stuff bough spasmodically from 1965 to 2015 - all of it that I have on hand measures Rifle primer pocket depth - same as my 38/55, 22/250, 45/70, 348 brass (or within a few thou of it) there is a distinct difference in the pocket depth of the 45 colt and 44 magnum brass I have measured.

The 44/40 was a rifle round that ended up getting used in pistols - 45 colt and 44mag went the other way, pistol rounds that ended up (only recently too) in rifles.

No you wont do any harm using pistol primers in the 44/40 - if you had a short firing pin in something you MIGHT get a fail to fire but thats highly unlikely (the softer metal in the primer should compensate) - if you loaded really hot in a rifle and a firing pin is a bit overlength maybe a pierced primer (that is NOT fun at all)

OTOH loading rifle primers in the pistol cases (45colt, 44 mag etc) is either gonna (maybe) scrunch them too much or the primer stands a little proud (neither of which is ideal)

At some point the makers of brass are gonna wake up to this and make all their brass so its safe with either primers - there are some blokes running some pretty serious loads in 45 colt model 92's .

[prs]

Ya won't need to argue with me. I take your word on it. If I find different, I will get back; but for now I am well supplied with pistol primers and not so much with rifle.

Rooster

[indian joe]

Ya won't need to argue with me. I take your word on it. If I find different, I will get back; but for now I am well supplied with pistol primers and not so much with rifle.

Rooster

from your picture posted above I wonder if Starline has already moved on this? maybe deepened the pockets on their 45 colt brass to make it safe with LRprimers ? Would be a good move If they did .

[Bruce in WV]

from your picture posted above I wonder if Starline has already moved on this? maybe deepened the pockets on their 45 colt brass to make it safe with LRprimers ? Would be a good move If they did .

That case came from an order I rec'd 5 days ago I got directly from Starline. I'm guessing its current production since the original order of three weeks ago was shown as out of stock and backordered.

[Scott.M]

Completed the experiment using virgin Starline 45 Colt case and WLR primer. No primer pocket prep.
Hand seated the primer using normal force; primer fits flush to the case head, fires normally using a modest load of Unique with a 200gr LRNFP Hy-Tek coated bullet.
This example applies only to this lot of brass and this lot of primers, of course. YMMV using different components. See the photo.

370421CF-C9E5-46EF-B181-510B85859571 by Bruce, on Flickr

Proof yet again that doing trumps guessing every time! Looks like you're good to go.

[smkummer]

After I read this, I went and primed a RP 44 mag. case with a Win LRP. It went flush. Probably good to go. I had a bad experience over 30 years ago using CCI primers in a 44 special case, probably Winchester. When I went to the deer camp, I had to force cock the hammer on my Colt SAA 44 special. I did this for awhile until it would cock easily on the 5 rounds. Later I noticed the timing was slightly off on my dearly loved Colt. It finally took a trip back to colt to make right. I never loaded a large rifle primer in a pistol case after that until a couple of days ago.

[indian joe]

After I read this, I went and primed a RP 44 mag. case with a Win LRP. It went flush. Probably good to go. I had a bad experience over 30 years ago using CCI primers in a 44 special case, probably Winchester. When I went to the deer camp, I had to force cock the hammer on my Colt SAA 44 special. I did this for awhile until it would cock easily on the 5 rounds. Later I noticed the timing was slightly off on my dearly loved Colt. It finally took a trip back to colt to make right. I never loaded a large rifle primer in a pistol case after that until a couple of days ago.

When I tested this a while a go (a year - maybe two?) the 44/40 cases I had measured as for rifle primers and the few 44mag and 45 colt cases (just strays I had laying around) measured as for pistol primers ----so I call a rifle case a rifle case (44/40 is one of those) and I will call pistol case a pistol case (44 mag,44 special,45 colt etc) . If starline is smart enough to make all these suitable for either type primer I reckon that would be a good move for all concerned

[samari46]

Have a Marlin 1894 in 357 mag, swapped out the small pistol primers for small rifle primers and loaded ten of each. Non of the small rifle primers was hit hard enough to fire the primer. Small Pistol primers worked great just fine. Frank

[indian joe]

Have a Marlin 1894 in 357 mag, swapped out the small pistol primers for small rifle primers and loaded ten of each. Non of the small rifle primers was hit hard enough to fire the primer. Small Pistol primers worked great just fine. Frank

Frank
Small rifle / small pistol primers are same dimensions - as are the small primer pockets in brass we buy, so they are interchangeable depending on what you wanna do ....

large rifle spec is a tad taller than large pistol and the pockets in rifle brass are that little bit deeper than large pistol brass .....hence the argument about what suits a 44/40 which started life as a RIFLE round and (at least until very recent times) had the primer pockets cut correct depth for large rifle primers - this despite sundry gun gurus over the last twenty years classing it as a pistol round and writing large pistol primer in reloading manuals ........making the primers different dimension in the beginning was a seriously dumb idea and you gotta wonder who the idjit was that came up with that plan - but they did

So .......pistol primers in a 44/40 ? sure why not so long as they go off its all good ....but dont tell me I am stoopid using rifle primers in that same case because all the ones I have are made correct pocket depth for it and I measured em to prove the point

Which brings us to using rifle primers in pistol brass? 44magnum, 45 colt, etc --- PISTOL ROUNDS --- the few I have measured are DIFFERENT than rifle brass - the primer pockets are shallower -- so -- using rifle primers in these has a question mark and you better check that they seat flush and arent squashed in the pocket because in pistols and tube magazine cowboy rifles we dont want primers sitting proud and going bang when they aint sposed to ...................................

Like I said earlier if someone (like Starline fr instance) wakes up to this and starts making this brass to rifle specs .....they proly doin us a favour.

[samari46]

All cases used were from the same lot. Uniformed the primer pockets,uniformed the flash holes and trimmed to the same length.Bullets were Remington .357 jacketed softnosed and the powder was IMR 4227.And I forget the exact powder charge. Marlin 1894 with 20" barrel. The ones with small rifle primers had their heads colored with Red magic marker to tell them apart. 10 rds loaded with smp's ten rounds loaded with srp's. had a scope on the Marlin a 6x Lyman All American First off were the pistol primed loads. All fired and 3" group at 50 yds. Second group were the small rifle primed loads. I'st shot was a dud. Second and third was fired and the balance was roughly split between fired and dud. That little Marlin did whack the primers well and has the original hammer spring. That was my only attempt at using small pistol. Frank

[indian joe]

All cases used were from the same lot. Uniformed the primer pockets,uniformed the flash holes and trimmed to the same length.Bullets were Remington .357 jacketed softnosed and the powder was IMR 4227.And I forget the exact powder charge. Marlin 1894 with 20" barrel. The ones with small rifle primers had their heads colored with Red magic marker to tell them apart. 10 rds loaded with smp's ten rounds loaded with srp's. had a scope on the Marlin a 6x Lyman All American First off were the pistol primed loads. All fired and 3" group at 50 yds. Second group were the small rifle primed loads. I'st shot was a dud. Second and third was fired and the balance was roughly split between fired and dud. That little Marlin did whack the primers well and has the original hammer spring. That was my only attempt at using small pistol. Frank

Frank what brand primers?
We had some fail to fire with remington and some old brass coloured winchester primers (no idea what age they were)

cured that by switching to new federal - maybe it was the "new" or maybe it was the "federal" - they definitely softer to set off I reckon.

Also had most of a whole packet of brazilian 44/40 rounds a bloke gave me would not fire (again no idea how old they were but still they should go bang)

Repeating myself here but small rifle and small pistol should interchange dimension wise - they the same size - large rifle and large pistol are different dimensions (height) which could cause some (potential) problem - maybe not but its a 'pay attention deal' at least. (could be the manufacturers have changed this - but its only recent if they did)